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\"punto de apoyo\"

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

la transitoriedad del cargo

English translation:

the temporary nature of the post

Added to glossary by peter jackson
Dec 4, 2015 09:16
8 yrs ago
Spanish term

la transitoriedad del cargo

Spanish to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy
This is from an article of models of university governance in Spain. I know what it means: positions such as the Rector change regularly due to elections etc. but I am having trouble finding an appropiate rendering:

De hecho, son diversas las características del modelo de gobierno universitario español que lo identifican con el modelo burocrático: la elección de tipo representativo, una gestión no profesional y la transitoriedad del cargo.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 the temporary nature of the post
4 +4 transitory nature of the post/position
4 +1 the transitional nature of the role
4 the transitory/short-lived nature of the role
4 the temporary nature of the post

Discussion

Charles Davis Dec 5, 2015:
@Marcelo And from Valencia! (I've also removed my neutral; I've said what I think in the discussion and there's no need to labour the point.)
Adoración Bodoque Martínez Dec 4, 2015:
@Marcelo Thank you, Marcelo. Cheers from Ireland!
Marcelo González Dec 4, 2015:
@Charles & Adoración My impression of transitoriedad is that, at best, it may be a relatively low-frequency word throughout the rather large and diverse Spanish-speaking world, where one may not hear a broad cross-section of society (in numerous countries of Latin America) using it on a daily basis. That said, I think I may have a couple of neutrals I'd like to remove. :) Cheers from the Northern Mariana Islands
Charles Davis Dec 4, 2015:
Transitoriedad Since you mention it, at lunchtime I asked my wife (a Spanish schoolteacher very familiar with administrative language in education) whether "transitoriedad" was high register, and she said not at all; it's a normal way of describing a temporary position. That matches my own impression. "Transitorio" is more widely used in Spanish than transitory in English. And really, there is nothing informal about the word "temporary".
Adoración Bodoque Martínez Dec 4, 2015:
@Marcelo I don't really think 'transitoriedad' is "very formal", as you put it. Although its noun form may be less usual, the adjective 'transitorio' is fairly commonly used, and it does not really sound that formal. I suppose the writer could have used 'temporalidad' instead of 'transitoriedad'; but, whilst 'temporalidad' may not be so suitable in Spanish, in a formal context, I think 'temporary' would be a suitable choice in English, in both formal and informal contexts.

I happen to agree with Charles's arguments, and I would definitely use 'temporary'.
Charles Davis Dec 4, 2015:
@ Marcelo OK, no problem! So for once we disagree. Life would be very boring if it didn't happen now and then :)
Marcelo González Dec 4, 2015:
@Charles Like Simon, I rarely disagree with you Charles, but here, not only is there evidence the word 'transitory' is used in the context of employment, but, equally important, it also collocates with 'nature' in this context to create a widely-used word-pair that is often, if not exclusively, seen in formal texts, similar to 'transitoriedad'.
Charles Davis Dec 4, 2015:
@ Peter In Spanish universities (at least in all the cases I know), only the Rector is actually elected, and for a fixed term. He or she has a team assembled before the election, an electoral "ticket", and once in office has the power to appoint the Vice-Rectors and other members of the managerial team. None of the others is personally elected, but all of them are replaced when the Rector's term expires (unless the next Rector wants to reappoint them, I suppose, though that would be unusual).

The same is true in Spanish secondary schools: the Director(a) is elected by the staff (though not for a fixed term), and presents a team for election (including Vicedirector(a), Secretario/a and Jefe de Estudios). So again you vote just for the top job, but you're voting for a ticket.
Charles Davis Dec 4, 2015:
@Simon Your general point about collocation is well taken. As for Google hits, I was not basing my argument on them, but using them to back up what my own ear tells me. It's just that we all tend to feel that "it doesn't sound right to me" is a bit feeble, and it's nice to have some backup, but I agree that the latter is not decisive.

That said, and acknowledging the example you've quoted, and some (not many) more examples of "transitory" applied to positions in the sense of posts or jobs, they do not change my opinion that "transitory" is an awkward and unsuitable word in this context.

Certainly "transitory" means not permanent, but it's very much more commonly applied to abstract and emotionally significant things.
Simon Bruni Dec 4, 2015:
@ Charles I rarely disagree with you Charles but I beg to differ on this one. Just because there aren't many Google hits doesn't mean it's unidiomatic (two words don't have to be commonly used side by side in order to be an acceptable collocation). Transitory simply means "not permanent". But even using Google, there are plenty of examples of "transitory position", for instance, including the title of an academic article on this precise topic: http://works.bepress.com/phyllis_crocker/6/

"The Paradox of Being an Interim Dean: The Permanent Nature of a Transitory Position"
peter jackson (asker) Dec 4, 2015:
@Charles Yes, I tend to agree with you, Charles. I was having trouble finding an expression this morning partly because there is nothing before or after the sentence to suggest which "cargo" they are referring to. There are certainly more posts than just the rector which are temporary at Sapnish univeristies, although perhaps rector is the only elected one. In fact, I have "posts" in my provisional translation.
Charles Davis Dec 4, 2015:
@Marcelo In other words, while I fully agree that it's idiomatic to talk about the "transitory nature" of a number of things (the universe, happiness, and many others), those things do not include posts: "transitory" is simply not a word applied to posts in English, in my opinion.

Proposed translations

+3
3 hrs
Selected

the temporary nature of the post

This would be a more commonly used option, which I think would fit.
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : Snap! I completely agree. It's not just more common; it's standard and not at all low-register. "Transitory" is completely unidiomatic and would never be used here (I can only find one example, from India).
20 mins
Thank you very much, Charles.
agree Robert Forstag : And I fully agree with Charles that "transitory" here, while not incorrect, is really not the best option.
1 hr
Thank you very much, Robert. Yes, that's how I see it too!
agree Wilsonn Perez Reyes : y la transitoriedad del cargo = and the fact that the post is temporary
3 hrs
Thank you very much, Wilsonn.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks."
5 mins

the transitory/short-lived nature of the role

This is how I'd phrase it.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

the transitional nature of the role

Another suggestion.
Example sentence:

This highlights the transitional nature of family firms and how they may move through several different configurations,

Jin noted that the contradictions and ambiguity we see in China's international policy and behavior say much about the transitional nature of China

Peer comment(s):
agree jude dabo : transitional fits!
1 hr
Thank you, jude69!
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

the temporary nature of the post

I seem to swimming against the tide here, but my feeling is that although "transitoriedad" is normal in Spanish bureaucratic language, "transitory" is completely unidiomatic in English here. So although this seems to be just tweaking Marcelo's proposal, I think the difference is important enough to justify another answer.

All it means is appointment for a fixed term: not permanent or open-ended. In the context, I think the neatest solution is to use a single phrase for "transitoriedad", and "temporary nature" seems to me the obvious choice. Alternatively, you could say "the fact that the post has a fixed term", or something like that, but "fixed-term nature of the post" would be a bit awkward. "Temporary" means the same thing.

Another example of the Spanish expression, from a school context:

"Estoy en una situación de incertidumbre a causa de
• La transitoriedad del cargo y la perspectiva de volver a ocupar un puesto o docente"
La jefatura de estudios: estrategias de actuación
https://books.google.es/books?id=m87gNLR35BoC&pg=PA125&lpg=P...

And this example from Argentina illustrates well how "transitorio" is simple the antonym of "permanente", so temporary:

"A fs. 46vto. argumentan sobra la transitoriedad del cargo de Director suplente, afirmando que la ley no distingue entre un cargo permanente y uno transitorio a los efectos de las incompatibilidades por carga horaria"
http://www.jusonline.gov.ar/Jurisprudencia/textos.asp?id=699...

An English example:

"Posts are normally permanent, and in some cases designated as University offices, although fixed term appointments may be made where there is objective justification for the temporary nature of the post."
http://www.hr.admin.cam.ac.uk/hr-staff/information-staff/sta...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-12-04 13:00:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Adoración got in before me :)
Something went wrong...
+4
5 mins

transitory nature of the post/position

or perhaps "the high turnover rate of the position"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2015-12-04 09:26:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

cargo=post/position/appointment

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2015-12-04 23:37:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To briefly follow-up on a couple of points raised in Discussion (and in neutrals that I have now removed), the likely infrequency of use of a noun such as 'transitoriedad' (around the Spanish-speaking world) suggests 'transitory' (a word whose use may be similarly infrequent and often limited as well to more formal speech) may be an especially good option, particularly as it collocates with 'nature,' forming the same collocation suggested by Simon (at the five-minute mark as well).

I hope this helps!
Peer comment(s):
agree Simon Bruni
11 mins
Thanks, Simon :-)
agree neilmac : "You took the words right out of my mouth"... :)
17 mins
Thanks, Neil. Cheers :-)
agree James A. Walsh
1 hr
Thanks, James :-)
agree Sheila Critchley
3 hrs
Thank you, Horvats
Something went wrong...
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