| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Translator ethics working for automatic translation engine Thread poster: patransword
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 23:01
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Won't make a difference | Dec 28, 2023 |
Michael Kelly wrote:
A personal opinion as I think there is no definitive answer:
The point of this kind of work is to improve MT output. I have done work like it myself, and plan to in the future. If we want to oppose it on principle, we could oppose automation in other areas as well. Industries change, so we have to adapt with them. Having the spadework done by MT frees you up to concentrate on the finer points.
It won't make a difference, never mind how much you polish and train it, it will never be self-sustainable and completely error-free.
How would you describe this kind of work in your CV? "I was making sense of gibberish"? It's a "skill" that won't have any use anywhere else.
[Edited at 2023-12-28 12:31 GMT]
| | | | | Re: Question | Dec 28, 2023 |
1) The quality of MT depends on the service provider (obviously), on the language combination and on the text type. The more existing translations of a certain text type in a certain language combination there are, the more input the MT will have (if it uses internet as its source) and hence the better the output will be. Hence one translator's observations about the quality will obviously vary from another's, particularly if they have different language combinations or text types, without eithe... See more 1) The quality of MT depends on the service provider (obviously), on the language combination and on the text type. The more existing translations of a certain text type in a certain language combination there are, the more input the MT will have (if it uses internet as its source) and hence the better the output will be. Hence one translator's observations about the quality will obviously vary from another's, particularly if they have different language combinations or text types, without either of them being wrong. And it won't necessarily be "gibberish".
2) Saying that it can be improved doesn't mean it can be made perfect in the foreseeable future. It just means that the amount of post-editing required can be reduced.
[Modifié le 2023-12-28 13:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 23:01
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| That’s exactely the issue | Dec 28, 2023 |
Can’t measure “the amount of editing required” lineary.
In a 20k text there may be just one serious error, but in order to find it you need to check all 20k words. Or you may have 10 serious errors in it, and it will require the same kind of check like in the former case. As you never know where this error will be in a text, you need to check every word and every line.
Does this prove the amount of editing has been reduced?
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 23:01
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
| Working for MT/AI training | Dec 28, 2023 |
You were approached to work for MT training and said "My question is - how would you feel doing this kind of work? I am finding it difficult to accept as I would, I imagine, be contributing to making translation engines better and making it more difficult for "real" translators to get work."
When I was young, I was a real revolutionary. I had absolutely no desire to enter the system and I even did everything I could to get myself kicked out of high school, telling myself that... See more You were approached to work for MT training and said "My question is - how would you feel doing this kind of work? I am finding it difficult to accept as I would, I imagine, be contributing to making translation engines better and making it more difficult for "real" translators to get work."
When I was young, I was a real revolutionary. I had absolutely no desire to enter the system and I even did everything I could to get myself kicked out of high school, telling myself that, without a diploma, this path would be closed to me forever.
I simply didn't want to be a lawyer or a doctor, or something of the like, but I wanted to live and work on a farm with animals, making goat's cheese and growing vegetables.
Well, years later, having a child, I completely changed my opinion, and just tried to get jobs so that I could provide her food, health care and all the rest. This was the beginning of my new life.
Now, I'm forced to realize that I'm just drifting along with the waters of mainstream culture: I work for example on (product) localization projects, giving my best to make the ads sound as natural as possible and create a kind of craving inciting clients to buy things they don't need! That's sad, I know, but almost everybody does it.
Coming back to MT and AI: I think all translators now work with these tools – even though these are far from being perfect – and would appreciate having some tool they really can rely on, because it does make work easier! AI (ChatGPT) is perfect when you search for the meaning of an acronym, it always comes up with good replies or at least advice. I would never use ChatGPT for translation, but it's very good to find explanations concerning technical subjects.
So, if it's really well paid, why not? Go for it. It's always interesting to make a new experience.
Kind regards,
Inge ▲ Collapse
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| So why would I ever tie my own rope? | Dec 28, 2023 |
While it might feel a lot like this, the pragmatist in me cuts it short - you either get on board, or you get left behind.
It's just business.
On reflection, I think I would still accept such jobs every now and then. If only to keep myself informed about the capabilities of our shared "enemy." IMO, what needs to be broken is the propaganda of success surrounding the AI. When artists got threatened by AI, they started pointing out the ridiculous way the algorithms draws hands.... See more While it might feel a lot like this, the pragmatist in me cuts it short - you either get on board, or you get left behind.
It's just business.
On reflection, I think I would still accept such jobs every now and then. If only to keep myself informed about the capabilities of our shared "enemy." IMO, what needs to be broken is the propaganda of success surrounding the AI. When artists got threatened by AI, they started pointing out the ridiculous way the algorithms draws hands. Of course, (some of) the AI then got trained to be better, but word's gotten out that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
Now, the actual problem is when people don't care, or even notice, when a hand has two thumbs and seven fingers all melted together.
Though let me chime in about "making sense of gibberish" not being an actual skill. I beg to differ. While Gibberish to English isn't recognized as a language pair, I don't believe I'm the only one to have worked with corporate lingo or trudged through legal babble. I would perhaps rephrase it as a more diplomatic: sometimes we just don't have the luxury of perfect input. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 00:01
English to Russian
Christopher Schröder wrote:
you could look it up in two seconds Why on earth someone chooses words that others would need to google to get the point? Is it because they want to look smarter than others? Why not just use words that everyone understands?
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 23:01
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Stepan Konev wrote:
Why on earth someone chooses words that others would need to google to get the point? Is it because they want to look smarter than others? Why not just use words that everyone understands?
The question is rather who doesn't understand the acronym "w.r.t." in the given context. My English is far from perfect and even I understood what he meant. I don't see how this has anything to do with trying to look smarter.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:01
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Lieven Malaise wrote: Stepan Konev wrote:
Why on earth someone chooses words that others would need to google to get the point? Is it because they want to look smarter than others? Why not just use words that everyone understands? The question is rather who doesn't understand the acronym "w.r.t." in the given context. My English is far from perfect and even I understood what he meant. I don't see how this has anything to do with trying to look smarter.
ODO WFT TM, so IMO. FNO I'm going to JSEIA. Some OTSC IH RPMO.
[Edited at 2023-12-29 08:19 GMT]
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Lieven Malaise wrote:
The question is rather who doesn't understand the acronym "w.r.t." in the given context. My English is far from perfect and even I understood what he meant. I don't see how this has anything to do with trying to look smarter.
I think I’ve only ever seen wrt used by non-native speakers of English, but maybe you translators out of English have more exposure to non-standard English than I do?
I was taught at school that phrases like “with/in reference/regard/respect to/of” are to be avoided as there is always a simpler, more elegant alternative (in this case “about”).
But my point was that it’s blindingly obvious from the context what it means and what it’s short for, as Lieven says. Inferring meanings from context is a key part of our skill set as translators. Which is why I know Tom was just making a rhetorical point.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 23:01
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
I have never seen wrt before, but yes, the meaning was obvious from the context.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:01
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Lingua 5B wrote:
I have never seen wrt before, but yes, the meaning was obvious from the context.
TM wo FTC yes.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 23:01
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Tom in London wrote: Lingua 5B wrote:
I have never seen wrt before, but yes, the meaning was obvious from the context. TM wo FTC yes.
This is gibberish with no context.
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Yakov Katsman
United States
Local time: 17:01
Member (2016)
English to Russian
GPT
Hello! In the context of the translation industry, "WRT" typically stands for "With Respect To." This phrase is used to specify the particular aspect or topic that is being considered or discussed. For example, a translator might say, "WRT the document's tone, we should maintain formality," indicating that the comment is specifically about the tone of the document in question. If you have any more acronyms to explore or need further clarification, feel free to ask!
| | | | | Last time I checked .... | Dec 29, 2023 |
Tom in London wrote: Lieven Malaise wrote: Stepan Konev wrote:
Why on earth someone chooses words that others would need to google to get the point? Is it because they want to look smarter than others? Why not just use words that everyone understands? The question is rather who doesn't understand the acronym "w.r.t." in the given context. My English is far from perfect and even I understood what he meant. I don't see how this has anything to do with trying to look smarter. ODO WFT TM, so IMO. FNO I'm going to JSEIA. Some OTSC IH RPMO. [Edited at 2023-12-29 08:19 GMT]
.... I was living on planet earth. Could we please talk proper English, because these alien abbreviations are too much for a poor Dutch boy like me.
[Edited at 2023-12-29 22:30 GMT]
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On the topic for this thread, MTPE has been discussed at length for years here. I’ve done this for people doing research to publish papers and it was very interesting. So, if you have a job offer where you’re expected to be more than just a cogwheel, you may end up liking it.
On the topic of ethics, it is hard to see how the AI developments can be steered ethically. There are some attempts at it. For those interested in the topic, I had posted about the keynote speaker for Wordf... See more On the topic for this thread, MTPE has been discussed at length for years here. I’ve done this for people doing research to publish papers and it was very interesting. So, if you have a job offer where you’re expected to be more than just a cogwheel, you may end up liking it.
On the topic of ethics, it is hard to see how the AI developments can be steered ethically. There are some attempts at it. For those interested in the topic, I had posted about the keynote speaker for Wordfast Forward 24 conference in Spain if you want to check it out:
https://www.proz.com/forum/language_industry_events_announcements/365057-in_may_2024_the_wordfast_team_invites_all_linguists_to_join_the_wordfast_forward_conference.html
The talk in on the Thursday. Program here: https://www.wordfast.com/conference/2024/program
The description is a bit technical, but basically, it’s to look at AI in general and specifically in translation, ethics implications and current ethics efforts. For those interested, see you in Sitges 😉 ▲ Collapse
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