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从事口译与笔译之心得体会及教训
Thread poster: tanglsus
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:55
Chinese to English
+ ...
hmm... Jan 7, 2016

coolfool wrote:

1. We, I to be more specific, ain’t conscious exactly of what 孺子牛 really was and of how it was actually performed.

2. Stumble occasionally across a few kids next door on and off the backs of their fathers, stooped forward and downward on the wooden floor, dressed up as neither fish nor fowl, but as they are, excited and yelling along with their mothers egging them on on the sidelines. Whether or not it has anything to do with 孺子牛, I ain’t any the wiser. What’s more, it can also be deemed in a sense to be tamed horse, if not toothless tiger, instead of cattle, ox, or whatever.

3. Given the above-mentioned reason, or reasons, I tried successfully or not to avoid being particular with fuzzy handling in this context in a broader sense.

4. According to New Oxford English Dictionary,
4.1 Ox, pl. oxen, means
4.1.1 a domesticated bovine animal kept for milk or meat; a cow or bull. See Cattle (sense 1);
4.1.2 a castrated male of this, formerly much used as a draught animal: [as modifier] an ox cart; and
4.1.3 an animal of a group related to the domestic ox. See Cattle (sense 2).
4.2 We’re here, you see, referred, not once but twice, to the entry of cattle, like New Oxford Thesaurus Dictionary.
4.3 Cattle, pl. n., is defined as follows:
4.3.1 large ruminant animals with horns and cloven hoofs, domesticated for meat or milk, or as beasts of burden; cows and oxen;
4.3.2 Bos taurus (including the zebu, B. indicus), family Bovidae; descended from the extinct aurochs;
4.3.3 similar animals of a group related to domestic cattle, including yak, bison, and buffaloes; and
4.3.4 Tribe Bovini, family Bovidae (the cattle family): four genera, in particular Bos. The cattle family also includes the sheep, goats, goat-antelopes, and antelopes.
4.4 Apprently, the range of cattle covers ox, as does New Oxford Thesaurus Dictionary.

5. The topic in question is exclusive beyond doubt of other factors, like tone, rhyme, to name a few.

6. Obviously, it ain’t a federal case. If don’t like cattle, choose ox or bull or cow, instead. If hate kit, pick dress or suit, then. All roads, shorter or longer, straight or winding, smooth or rough, lead to Rome.

7. With my tunnel vision, in cattle kit and like [a] cattle ain’t two peas in a pod. In my opinion, like [a] cattle is acceptable. Furthermore, kit ain’t indispensable. How about costume?

8. The second line sounds, at least to me, a bit tongue-tied as kit and kid cram cheek by jowl against each other, whereas the text rolls right off the tongue.

9. Well, let’s now wait and see if the jade would come up, knock on wood.


coolfool,

I wish it was "Rome" we were talking about.


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
I totally agree with you there. Jan 9, 2016

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

Thank you Steve for pointing this out!



You're welcome, J.H..

No need to be sorry. IMO, the purpose of a professional forum is to benefit the users. If everyone keeps quiet, those who aren't clear on something may likely remain so. So I think your raising an issue like this is great.

Incidentally, a few days ago I came across the use of the term "another B.S.". Nobody ever spoke up; since I don't post in that forum, neither did I. In this instance, to be grammatically correct, one needs to say "another piece of B.S.".

http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/pluraleterm.htm


[Edited at 2016-01-06 14:27 GMT]


As we all know, a little learning is a dangerous thing; but on the other hand, nothing venture, nothing have.


 
coolfool
coolfool
China
Local time: 07:55
Chinese to English
Minor Changes for Better or Most Probably Worse Jan 10, 2016

1. v2.0
Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps coldheartedly
Go on all fours at kid’s beck and call in cattle kit wholeheartedly

2. v3.0
Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps stonyheartedly
Go on all fours in cattle costume at kid’s beck and call bigheartedly

3. Stumble occasionally across a few kids next door, excited and yelling, on and off, off and on the backs of their fathers, stooped forward and downward on the wo
... See more
1. v2.0
Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps coldheartedly
Go on all fours at kid’s beck and call in cattle kit wholeheartedly

2. v3.0
Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps stonyheartedly
Go on all fours in cattle costume at kid’s beck and call bigheartedly

3. Stumble occasionally across a few kids next door, excited and yelling, on and off, off and on the backs of their fathers, stooped forward and downward on the wooden floor, dressed up as neither fish nor fowl, but as they are, along with their mothers egging them on on the sidelines. Whether or not it has anything to do with 孺子牛, I ain’t any the wiser. What’s more, it can also be deemed in a sense to be tamed horse, if not toothless tiger, instead of cattle, ox, or whatever.
Collapse


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
Sorry for so late a response as I was busy recently. Jan 10, 2016

coolfool wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

coolfool wrote:

Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps coldheartedly
Go on all fours in cattle kit at kid's back and call wholeheartedly

[修改时间: 2016-01-02 08:29 GMT]



老实说,总体上我觉得译得相当精彩,尤其是上联。下联的 in cattle kit 感觉似乎不太通,可否改为:like a cattle?请教大家。

[Edited at 2016-01-04 04:42 GMT]


Your encouraging remark is highly appreciated.

I'd appreciate it even more if you'd be more specific about 不通, so that I'd rewrite, modify, and/or improve it accordingly.


Basically, I think your translation, i.e. in cattle kit is unfaithful to the original line and is an overinterpretation of it. Considering that the writer is Lu Xun, it would seem funny to imagine him being in cattle kit, although it is understandable for him to be on all fours.

You can take a look at the appreciation of the whole poem at: http://www.shicimingju.com/131.html.

Despite this, your English is amazing!

[Edited at 2016-01-10 11:07 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
Another point for your consideration Jan 11, 2016

coolfool wrote:

1. v2.0
Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps coldheartedly
Go on all fours at kid’s beck and call in cattle kit wholeheartedly

2. v3.0
Go toe-to-toe with an endless barrage of bum raps stonyheartedly
Go on all fours in cattle costume at kid’s beck and call bigheartedly

3. Stumble occasionally across a few kids next door, excited and yelling, on and off, off and on the backs of their fathers, stooped forward and downward on the wooden floor, dressed up as neither fish nor fowl, but as they are, along with their mothers egging them on on the sidelines. Whether or not it has anything to do with 孺子牛, I ain’t any the wiser. What’s more, it can also be deemed in a sense to be tamed horse, if not toothless tiger, instead of cattle, ox, or whatever.


Also, I think that 千夫指 could be translated more accurately as something like censure from hundreds of adversaries, which is of course a rhetorical exaggeration. An endless barrage of bum raps might come from one adversary, which is obviously not true in Lu Xun's case.


 
coolfool
coolfool
China
Local time: 07:55
Chinese to English
My Appreciation Jan 13, 2016

1. Your kind comments are always welcome. Whether I’m wrong or right matters less. Sorting the wheat from the chaff, in my book, counts more.

2. Exchanging our points of view helps improve our, especially my, command of English beyond doubt.

3. Gratitude to you for the valuable link. Unluckily, it can’t be accessed for the time being.

4. Confucius once instructed that, a legend goes, “one, conceiving what one conceives and unconceiving what one unconc
... See more
1. Your kind comments are always welcome. Whether I’m wrong or right matters less. Sorting the wheat from the chaff, in my book, counts more.

2. Exchanging our points of view helps improve our, especially my, command of English beyond doubt.

3. Gratitude to you for the valuable link. Unluckily, it can’t be accessed for the time being.

4. Confucius once instructed that, a legend goes, “one, conceiving what one conceives and unconceiving what one unconceives, be truthfully conceived”. I, mouth full of pap, daren’t not admit I, and I alone, am eager to eat crow.

5. Slow-witted, I don’t remember ever having boasted that my little job is faithful. I don’t recall, either, ever having bragged that any piece of my work is fair and square. What does retain in my mind, quite the contrary, is I try at the very beginning to throw a brick that nobody ought to give a shit about in the hope of attracting a jade or two, if not pearls supposed not to be cast before swine, from our fellow members, you included of course. Do I get it all wrong?

6. Like I said I ain’t aware altogether of what 孺子牛 was and of how it was played. All I’ve learned is as follows (please see http://www.zdic.net/c/a/7a/129726.htm):
孺子牛:
1. 儿童游戏时牵着走的由大人扮成的牛
2. 比喻甘愿为人民大众服务的人
国语辞典:
孺子指春秋時齊景公的兒子荼,因景公曾銜繩假扮為牛,使荼牽行,故稱為「孺子牛」。典出左傳.哀公六年。後比喻父母疼愛子女或甘願做公僕,為群眾服務的人。

7. If the explanation is unfounded, so am I, to a degree. I’m merely one of dictionary users. Could you prove it’s misleading? Ain’t we all from Missouri these days? Even if this is the case, you, not I, should write to the above-mentioned dictionaries’ compilers. I’d love to revise my lines accordingly right after they do so. I ain’t an old hand at classic allusion by any means.

8. Suppose the above definition is justified at the moment, please do pay attention to 扮, don’t you think in cattle kit, in cattle costume, perhaps like [a] cattle, as your good self put it, and something similar, emanate from it?

9. You seem to know what 孺子牛 was, because if you don’t, you’re in no position to claim which overstates and which understates, so why don’t you just let us in on it for the old fellow members’ sake? Besides, you point wisely out the fact that those, having pointed the accusing fingers at Lu Xun, might come from more than one adversary. Although willing to assume you ain’t nitpicking, I’ve bigger fish to fry. To tell the truth, I ain’t a historian, let alone an all-knowing, all-wise snake oil salesperson. Furthermore, what is true and isn’t, what people might do and mightn’t in history at home and abroad, I’m afraid, are off the point, I ain’t hired to be a fact-finder here. I couldn’t care less about, consequently, whatever Lu Xun was, or wasn’t, or did, or didn’t, and if he’d ever turned white into black, black white.

10. Delighted to see you think something here is funny. Sure, be my guest. That you’re able to imagine what Lu Xun might, or mightn’t, do whatever, to be honest, has nothing to do with my ho-hum lines. I’m a pen-pushing hack without imagination.

11. Lu Xun wrote 千, not 百. You suggest adopting hundreds, not thousand nor a thousand nor thousands, without reason. Mark my words, we of small potatoes, satisfied with living hand to mouth and making both ends meet, are doing our little jobs that simply turn one language as they are into the other either in black and white or in electronic format without a sense more, a sense less and without twisting the text. Even if Lu Xun, most probably turning in this respect in his grave for now, had made a mistake or two, you, not we, particularly not I, are the one who is supposed to consult with him. If he declared mea culpa in writing, I’d redo my job asap. Or, I’d keep sitting tight until he does so. We translate his works, however seemingly unreasonable, not yours, however seemingly reasonable. No matter what you say. No matter how you say.

12. When it comes to writers’ exaggeration, do you imply we at the bottom of the heap shouldn’t follow suit? If I get it right, I’m all at sea.
Collapse


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
Sorry for the unaccessiblity of the link due to the last dot Jan 20, 2016

coolfool wrote:


3. Gratitude to you for the valuable link. Unluckily, it can’t be accessed for the time being.



Hi coolfool,

Please remove the last dot, which should not have been a part of the link.

This article provides not only historical background information about 孺子牛, but also a clarification of what 千夫 refers to.

I'm be back to disscuss in more detail in a few days.


 
Rita Pang
Rita Pang  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:55
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...

Moderator of this forum
If I may add Jan 21, 2016

中文其中一个最叫人拍案叫绝的地方就是精简 - 短短几个字已经带出无限意境。同样地,译文应该尽量和原文看齐。

我自己觉得译文的词句选择都很不错。但是直接点说一句,还是简洁些比较好。

您别怪我直接,我性子比较大喇喇,从一个读者心态角度出发,再精简点,用些较简单直接的词语,读起来会让您的译文更上一层楼。"...bum raps wholeheartedly" 这段让我看了好一会才理解用意。

[Edited at 2016-01-21 18:47 GMT]


 
coolfool
coolfool
China
Local time: 07:55
Chinese to English
Simple Is Beautiful Jan 22, 2016

J.H. Wang wrote:

...

Please remove the last dot, which should not have been a part of the link.

...


Having dotted the dotted i wouldn’t necessarily, I wish, lead to crossing the crossed t in the near future.

[修改时间: 2016-01-22 13:05 GMT]


 
coolfool
coolfool
China
Local time: 07:55
Chinese to English
Grateful for Your Advice Jan 23, 2016

Rita Pang wrote:

中文其中一个最叫人拍案叫绝的地方就是精简 - 短短几个字已经带出无限意境。同样地,译文应该尽量和原文看齐。

我自己觉得译文的词句选择都很不错。但是直接点说一句,还是简洁些比较好。

您别怪我直接,我性子比较大喇喇,从一个读者心态角度出发,再精简点,用些较简单直接的词语,读起来会让您的译文更上一层楼。"...bum raps wholeheartedly" 这段让我看了好一会才理解用意。

[Edited at 2016-01-21 18:47 GMT]


v4.0
Go toe-to-toe with a thousand potshots stonyheartedly
Go on all fours at kid’s disposal in cattle kit bigheartedly

Look, just wondering if we have all the while to please peers and readers?


 
Rita Pang
Rita Pang  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:55
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...

Moderator of this forum
這不是讓讀者開心與否的問題 Feb 15, 2016

coolfool wrote:

v4.0
Go toe-to-toe with a thousand potshots stonyheartedly
Go on all fours at kid’s disposal in cattle kit bigheartedly

Look, just wondering if we have all the while to please peers and readers?


而是讀者能否看懂的問題。再直白一點吧,我真的沒看懂。stone-hearted 我聽過,stonyheartedly 好像說不通。不是什麽adjective 加個 ly 就可以變成 adverb 的。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
“千夫”是指谁 Feb 15, 2016

tanglsus wrote:

横眉怒对千夫指, 俯首甘为孺子牛, 此句名言, 尽述(法律和其他题材)口笔译者的不同境遇心态。

译者“俯首甘为孺子牛”,这容易理解。但“横眉怒对千夫指”就难以理解了。这“千夫”是指谁?


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:55
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Every point you have made about 读者能否看懂的问题 is valid Feb 15, 2016

Rita Pang wrote:

coolfool wrote:

v4.0
Go toe-to-toe with a thousand potshots stonyheartedly
Go on all fours at kid’s disposal in cattle kit bigheartedly

Look, just wondering if we have all the while to please peers and readers?


而是讀者能否看懂的問題。再直白一點吧,我真的沒看懂。stone-hearted 我聽過,stonyheartedly 好像說不通。不是什麽adjective 加個 ly 就可以變成 adverb 的。


I gave my comments on a source text that I rejected yesterday, as follows:

I, as a translator, am usually not in a position to make any comment about the quality of a source text. I didn't accept your job at this time so I'm in a position to describe my feelings after reading your ad piece as a potential user of your products.

I cannot help ask these questions:

Are you trying to let your potential customers understand how good your products are? Or are you just trying to let them know you are the one who is able to use many unusual words through which many average Americans wouldn't get a hint about what you are talking about? Or are you testing their patience in reading your ad script? To be honest, I felt nauseous reading your ad script.

Now I feel I should have included this: Anyone that tends to create this kind of junk should be fired.

[Edited at 2016-02-15 21:03 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-02-15 21:03 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-02-16 00:33 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-02-16 03:15 GMT]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:55
Chinese to English
+ ...
大实话 Feb 15, 2016

jyuan,

You know, there is such a thing as being honest to a fault.


[Edited at 2016-02-15 22:35 GMT]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:55
Chinese to English
+ ...
obscure terms Feb 15, 2016

Rita,

I've never heard of the term "stony-heartedly" either, unfortunately it does exist according to dictionary.com 🙄

Other than that, I agree with your comments "wholeheartedly".


[Edited at 2016-02-15 22:25 GMT]


 
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从事口译与笔译之心得体会及教训






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