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macchinario di torcitura lato saldatura
DI DELIBERA
Feb 27, 2023 10:45
1 yr ago
39 viewers *
Italian term

medicina necroscopica

Italian to English Medical Medical (general) Areas of study
Translating a list of learning objectives for medical students.
There are hits for "necroscopic medicine" but they're all Italian.
I don't think it's "forensic medicine", based on this definition:
"I compiti della medicina necroscopica riguardano gli accertamenti di morte, i decreti di autorizzazione al trasporto delle salme, le cremazioni, i trattamenti conservativi e le necroscopie."
https://www.aslroma2.it/index.php/home/60-cittadini/servizi/...

Thanks in advance.

"Conoscere ed applicare la regolamentazione giuridica della medicina necroscopica"
Proposed translations (English)
4 procedures on the death of a patient
4 -1 Forensic Medicine
3 coroner's duties and postmortem examinations
3 -1 necroscopic medicine
2 -1 necropsy medicine
References
see
medicina necroscopica - post-mortem examination
Medicina Necroscopica Si occupa dell'...

Discussion

Fiona Grace Peterson (asker) Mar 16, 2023:
Final thoughts This term has been a real headache, because I think it has different meanings in different contexts. I have selected Phil's answer to acknowledge the fact that he gave the closest answer in this particular context, but it would not be a suitable translation for "medicina necroscopica" in all contexts. Apologies for any distress caused and thank you all for your patience and your input, much appreciated as always.
Buon lavoro!
JudyC Mar 1, 2023:
I think in the end Phil came closest to the meaning.
Since it's not a specialty or subspecialty, and there's no real correspondence in job titles (even medical examiner is only partly correct), I think I would concentrate of what they do, which is primarily to ascertain deaths (at home, through an "external post-mortem examination") and to report the death by filling in the ISTAT form (Institute of Statistics) indicating also the cause and manner of death.
https://www.funeraliroma.it/medico-necroscopo.htm

So, in your context I'd probably put something like the legal requirements/aspects of external postmortem (or necroscopic) examinations/practice

Things seem to be changing also in the UK
https://www.england.nhs.uk/establishing-medical-examiner-sys...
philgoddard Feb 28, 2023:
Yes, I'm sure it deals with the situation in Italy, and it's primarily about the law. As your reference shows, Fiona, it's not just about autopsies - it also includes things like cremation, which is not medicine.
Fiona Grace Peterson (asker) Feb 28, 2023:
An Italian affair? I'm also wondering, given its legal aspects, if "medicina necroscopica" may deal mostly with the situation in Italy?
Fiona Grace Peterson (asker) Feb 28, 2023:
Old but still good? This is from a very old article, but I think it may still be relevant:
"On page 571 of the Journal is a paragraph in regard to the words autopsy, necropsy and necrotomy, as used to express the act of making a postmortem examination.
The objection to the word autopsy is very properly stated, since it does not express the idea intended to be conveyed. As the word necrotomy simply means the cutting of a dead body, it also lacks in explicitness. But the word necropsy is a sort of corruption of necroscopy, which means (from \g=n\[unk]\g=k\\g=r\[unk][unk],a dead body, and \g=s\\g=k\\g=o\\g=p\[unk]\g=w\,to examine) just what it says, and is therefore the word to use. It has the advantage of stating in one word what otherwise requires at least three."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/46146...
EleoE Feb 28, 2023:
Necropsy usually refers to a post-mortem examination of an animal, and “autopsy” usually refers exclusively to humans. However, they are forensic procedures used to ascertain the cause of death, not death itself. They are just a little part of "medicina necroscopica".
JudyC Feb 28, 2023:
Yes, but it's the usual problem with "visita".
It's an examination not a visit. So it should be "necroscopic" or "post-mortem examination" or "necropsy" or "autopsy" ...
EleoE Feb 27, 2023:
Here, on page 34, P-I.06.01F, Visita necroscopica per accertamento di
decesso is translated Necroscopic visit to ascertain death.
http://www.siapecservizi.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/NAP_v...

Proposed translations

3 hrs
Selected

procedures on the death of a patient

Or even "What to do when a patient dies", if informal language is appropriate.

This sounds like a medical specialty, but it's not. It's a learning objective, something that all doctors have to know.
Peer comment(s):
neutral JudyC : a learning objective of Specialty Schools (Residencies) of Pathology (not all doctors). See my first ref for list (probably what Fiona is translating)
2 hrs
I've searched your very long reference. The phrase occurs once, and is not explained.
neutral EleoE : The death of a person in general, not just of patients.
5 days
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1 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
3 hrs

necropsy medicine

The research areas for Forensic Medicine concern 4 macro-sectors:

necropsy medicine;
health care liability litigation management;
clinical forensics;
forensic medicine.
https://dsg.unibo.it/en/research/research-areas/forensic-med...

https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cn/2021/00000019/...

solo su siti IT, per cui CL 2
Peer comment(s):
disagree EleoE : Non è questo.
8 hrs
visto il CL2 e quanto riportato, era sufficiente un neutral
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-1
1 hr

Forensic Medicine

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Medicina_necroscopica...

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Note added at 1 heure (2023-02-27 12:27:15 GMT)
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Manuale di medicina necroscopica - Gianluigi Ferrigno
https://books.google.com › about
·
Translate this page
Author, Gianluigi Ferrigno ; Publisher, UNI Service, 2010 ; ISBN, 8861784879, 9788861784871 ; Length, 120 pages ; Subjects. Medical. › Forensic Medicine · Medical / ...

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Note added at 12 heures (2023-02-27 22:58:30 GMT)
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OR

Pathology


Post-mortem examinations

A post-mortem examination or autopsy is an examination of the body following death. It is carried out by a pathologist. These are doctors who are experts in finding out the cause of death. The examination is carried out as soon as possible after death and every effort is made to minimise any delay.

The pathologist will start with an external examination of the body followed by an internal examination. The major internal organs will need to be removed and examined. In most cases the organs are returned to the body afterwards.

Although some information can be obtained from looking directly at organs in a post-mortem examination, often the only way to understand properly what has happened is:

to look at part of an organ under the microscope
carry out special tests
get a second medical opinion
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : No, this doesn't fit with Fiona's definition.
2 hrs
but it fits with online refs.
disagree EleoE : This is not it.
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 6 hrs

coroner's duties and postmortem examinations

You might consider to use a combination of two expressions because there doesn't seem to be *the* congruent field description.
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-1
13 mins

necroscopic medicine

"Necroscopic" seems to be a legitimate word in English too as it appears in the Collins Dictionary, see link below

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Note added at 4 giorni (2023-03-03 12:18:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Scrolling down the page I linked from the Collins Dictionary, there are a few examples of medical publications where “necroscopic” is used.
One is Italian, the other 4 are by fellow Romance-language-speaking Brazilians.
However, the adjective “nekroskopisch” can also be found in medical publications in German, supporting the theory that it is a legitimate term in Germanic languages too, please see the link below for an overview:

https://www.google.it/search?client=safari&hl=it-it&q=nekros...

Many of those publications seem to be either translated from Italian or by Italian authors, indeed - even a thesis from an Austrian university where an Italian professor is cited

https://unipub.uni-graz.at/obvugrhs/download/pdf/2144299?ori...
(pages 99-100)

But in the end, in my opinion, all of this can confidently lead to the conclusion that “necroscopic” is a fully legitimate English medical term.
Reference:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/necroscopic

Peer comment(s):
disagree liz askew : no reliable hits in En though
1 hr
agree FPC : If there are few EN hits it can be because the specialty as such doesn't exist in English-speaking countries (Asker noted). It's no sin then, to make up a correct term to name it.
3 days 22 hrs
Going about it the other way around, one would be left high and dry wondering how “necroscopic” from the Collins Dictionary translates into Italian then, if not “necroscopico”, I guess.
disagree philgoddard : Of course necroscopic is a legitimate English term. But "necroscopic medicine" is not, and I don't see how things like transporting and cremating bodies can be described as "medicine".
11 days
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

see

https://www.librarysearch.manchester.ac.uk › fulldisplay
A manual of necroscopy : or, A guide to the performance of post-mortem examinations ; with notes on the morbid appearances, and suggestions for medico-legal ...

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Note added at 1 heure (2023-02-27 12:19:58 GMT)
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https://coroners.leicester.gov.uk › faqs › post-mortem-e...
If there are suspicious circumstances and the police are investigating the death, then the Coroner will request a forensic post-mortem examination.
Something went wrong...
5 hrs
Reference:

medicina necroscopica - post-mortem examination

A post-mortem examiniation (short for a post-mortem) is also called autopsy or necropsy (which is short for necroscopy) and is carried out by a pathologist or a medical examiner in a hospital morgue or a similar appropriate setting.

necroscopy = examination of a body after death (not used so often, as far as I am aware)

For example:
A post-mortem examination, also known as an autopsy, is the examination of a body after death. The aim of a post-mortem is to determine the cause of death.
Post-mortems are carried out by pathologists (doctors who specialise in understanding the nature and causes of disease).
The Royal College of Pathologists and the Human Tissue Authority (HTA) set the standards pathologists work to.
Post-mortems provide useful information about how, when and why someone died. They enable pathologists to obtain a better understanding of how diseases spread.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/post-mortem/
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12 hrs
Reference:

Medicina Necroscopica
Si occupa dell'accertamento del decesso e di tutte le attività ad esso connesse dietro richiesta dell'Ufficiale di Stato Civile dei Comuni od anche tramite le imprese di pompe funebri.
Attività:
•Visite necroscopiche per il rilascio certificazioni
•Vigilanza e controllo sul trasporto delle salme anche all'estero e dall'estero
•Vigilanza nei cimiteri sulle operazioni di tumulazione ed estumulazione, con rilascio di autorizzazioni e certificati sanitari
•pareri di idoneità dei carri funebri e di usabilità delle edicole funerarie
•pareri sanitari preventivi sui progetti di opere cimiteriali
•pareri sanitari sulle opere realizzate
https://www.asp.rc.it/medicina-necroscopica/?lang=it

http://www.fimmg.org/index.php?action=pages&m=view&p=3049&la...

https://www.asst-spedalicivili.it/upload/spedalicivili_bresc...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree philgoddard : Yes, and this supports my answer.
15 hrs
Thank you. :)
agree JudyC
1 day 20 hrs
Thank you! :)
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