Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

более чем в 90 раз ниже его стоимости

English translation:

less than a ninetieth of its cost

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2016-04-29 17:54:08 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Apr 26, 2016 14:19
8 yrs ago
Russian term

более чем в 90 раз ниже его стоимости

Russian to English Marketing Business/Commerce (general) Business Report
Препарат был закуплен по одной из самых низких цен в мире - 800 долларов США за курс, что ******более чем в 90 раз ниже его стоимости *******в других развитых странах.

TIA!

Discussion

Rachel Douglas Apr 26, 2016:
Trouble for sure... .... on the "up" side, too, as David says. Even in plain old English, I have to stop and think about what "increased by 200%" means. Does it mean that the amount is 200% of what it was before (if it was 100 before, now it's 200), i.e., it doubled? No, doubling should mean to increase by 100%. So increase by 200% must mean that the increase alone was 200% of the initial value, so 100 becomes 300 (tripled).

And to increase в два раза is to double, or to increase by 100%. Is that right? But if I have to translate an increase "в два раза" I try to write "doubled" (and hope I don't encounter multiples must larger than quintupled), because writing "by 100%" while looking at the number "два" destabilizes me.

Wasn't it because of something like this that one of the Mars probes missed? No, that was failure to convert between centimeters and inches.
David Knowles Apr 26, 2016:
There is another problem: the language of "five times more" is ambiguous, and should be avoided. I would say that "there are five times more drug addicts than there were 50 years ago" is not the same as "there are five times as many drug addicts as there were 50 years ago". The first one should be equivalent to "there are six times as many", but it's usually not. But if you said "there are 100% more" then there would be twice as many...
I think I'd better stop there!
Ilan Rubin (X) Apr 26, 2016:
It's a trap... ...for native Russian speakers who claim in their profile to be native speakers of English, but clearly aren't :-)
David Knowles Apr 26, 2016:
@Mikhail Well I fell into a trap of my own making, but I think I've corrected it. Apologies to all - especially Rachel, who was completely right! The point is that in good English usage, the original value is the unit and the new value is compared with it. So if the original value is 100, and the new value is 60, that's a drop of 40 or 40% of the original value of 100. If the new value is 140, that's an increase of 40%.
There is a typical logical trap: if an investment falls in value by 50% and then increases in value by 50%, what is its value now? Answer 75% of original - 100 down to 50, then up to 75.
It is difficult to expect translators or non-mathematicians (even mathematicians) to do the conversions, and the "dropped by ten times" language is sometimes used by English speakers. In that case, dropped by 90% is easy to do in your head, but more complicated ones require a bit of algebra.
So far, my recommendation is to send all such questions to Rachel, who will (for a modest fee to be negotiated) convert them all superbly!
Mikhail Kropotov Apr 26, 2016:
Not only a trap for Russian speakers Apparently some native English speakers, translators and mathematicians no less, also fall into that trap. I'm looking at you, David Knowles.
Yuri Larin (asker) Apr 26, 2016:
I'm very much aware of this trap for Russian speakers, and hence the need to re-visit the question… It’s just that I had to spend a few days translating into languages other than Russian or English, and my head is a bit fuzzy. So I thought I'd tap into the better minds of the ProZ.com community to make sure I get the math right :).

I'm overwhelmed with so many good answers! Wish I could make it up to all of you with the points! But you know the deal…

Thanks!

Proposed translations

+7
33 mins
Selected

less than a ninetieth of its cost

*
Peer comment(s):

agree Ilan Rubin (X) : This is exactly how I would say it - you beat me to it Jack!
9 mins
Thank you.
agree David Knowles : Yes - Jack and I are old hands at this question (as is Nik-on/off!
14 mins
Thank you.
agree Rachel Douglas : This is accurate, fine for many contexts, but I think ordinary readers visualize "around 1%" more easily than "1/90", because below, say, "one twentieth" (5%) it's harder to visualize the gradations of 1/30 (3-1/3%), 1/40 (2.5%), 1/70 (~1,4%), etc.
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Lazyt3ch
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Nik-On/Off
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Anton Konashenok
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Yakov Katsman
3 hrs
Thank you.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
3 mins

which is more than 90 times lower than its price

-
Peer comment(s):

agree Denis Zabelin
3 mins
Спасибо, Денис!
agree Tatiana Grehan
5 mins
Спасибо, Татьяна!
neutral Susan Welsh : This is the only one that sounds confusing in English. See previous discussions.
9 mins
sounds good to my ear
neutral Mikhail Kropotov : Very awkward
12 mins
sounds good to my ear
disagree Ilan Rubin (X) : Not English. In 'English' maths one times lower means 100% below, i.e. zero, and anything below that is a negative number \\ show me a respectable source from native English speakers then
30 mins
two times lower (higher) is frequently used in the media and even scientific journals
disagree David Knowles : and (as an English mathematician) I agree with Ilan
42 mins
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8 mins

over 98% cheaper

100/90= 1.111
100-1.111= 98.88

I am so confident of my answer because Americans are famously so good at math. :)
Peer comment(s):

agree Susan Welsh : Leigh explained this in an earlier question. This thorny translation question has been discussed many times.
2 mins
Thanks Susan.
neutral Ilan Rubin (X) : The maths is right of course, but as the number is much closer to 99 than 98 it makes sense here to say 'nearly 99% cheaper', no?
30 mins
That sounds good too.
disagree David Knowles : The maths is wrong! It's 90:1, which is 1/90 or .0111 or about 1%
38 mins
I'm afraid I disagree.
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+1
6 mins

less than 1.12% of its value

#

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2016-04-26 14:34:28 GMT)
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OK, probably price is more accurate than value here, but that's not the point. Questions very similar to yours are asked on a regular basis here and other forums. The thing is, in English we don't typically use 'factors' or multiplication to compare quantities, especially when the quantity of interest is less than some other. These ratios are usually expressed via a percentage.
Peer comment(s):

agree Susan Welsh
5 mins
Thank you, Susan
neutral Ilan Rubin (X) : The maths is right of course, but citing hundredeths of a percentage isn't really in keeping with the tone of the article, which uses whole numbers
34 mins
You're right, Ilan. This kind of precision is probably not necessary in an article like that. I must have translated too many scientific papers lately!
neutral David Knowles : Maths is right, but it's not meant to be exact, so around 1% is all you need to say.//I agree with you - have I grovelled enough?
41 mins
Hi David. How disrespectful -- and factually wrong -- of you to say that! 11.1% is 1/9 (one ninth). 1.11% is 1/90 (one ninetieth). I rounded it up to 1.12% be able to say (strictly) "less than".
Something went wrong...
+5
33 mins

almost as little as 1 percent of its cost in

Or "almost as low as 1 percent of its cost in..." This puts "more than" backwards, as "almost as little [low] as", just as one states the "less than" factor as the inverse of the divisor which is stated in Russian. Of course one can say "less than its cost in ... by a factor of greater than 90," but that is quite difficult to grasp.

Risking making this calculation before drinking coffee, and rounding to four places,
"90 times less than X" (doesn't work in English) = 1/90 of X = .0111 of X = 1.11 percent of X
"91 times less" - 1.10 percent
"92 times less" - 1.09 percent
"93 times less" - 1.08 percent
"94 times less" - 1.06 percent
"100 times less" - 1 percent

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Note added at 37 mins (2016-04-26 14:56:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

P.S. I didn't see Leigh's or Mikhail's posts when posting mine, because I was dawdling. We're all to the same point.

Among price, value and cost, I would still go with cost, but Leigh's solution avoids using any of those three.
Peer comment(s):

agree Ilan Rubin (X) : That works too
10 mins
Thanks, Ilan.
agree Mikhail Kropotov : This does sound better in the context. Good job, Rachel.
11 mins
Thanks, Mikhail.
agree David Knowles : Sorry Rachel - I got carried away by an earlier error - you're right!
15 mins
?? - David, 10% would be "TEN TIMES LESS". / OK, thanks, David.
agree Nik-On/Off
1 hr
Thanks, Dmitri.
agree danya
18 hrs
Thanks, Danya.
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

more than 50 times below its cost

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