| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | 本次翻译竞赛讨论 Автор темы: Jinhang Wang
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wherestip 
США
Local time: 03:03
китайский => английский
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J.H. Wang wrote:
逻辑悖论没有得到足够关注
Yes, indeed. There wouldn't be any so-called Yogi-isms if it weren't for the paradoxical contradictions and wordplay in his sayings.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_Yogi-ism What is a Yogi-ism? A Yogi-ism is a witty comment or statement that was supposedly said by Yogi Berra. The comments are usually blatantly obvious or incorrect or said in jest to get a laugh. Some of the more famous Yogi-isms are:
1) The game isn't over until it's over.
2) Baseball is 90 percent mental and the other half is physical.
3) You can observe a lot just by watching.
4) I always said that would be a record until it was broken.
Here's further an article by CBSNews titled "The Wisdom of Yogi-isms" for those interested ...
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-503120.html
To reflect in one's own language the wordplay of a different language isn't that easy. I guess that's the rationale of choosing some seemingly simplistic quotes of Yogi Berra as a contest topic this time by the Proz.com staff. I really didn't pay any attention to the contest. But a belated congrats to the winner all the same.
| | | | deleted. (X)
Австралия
Local time: 05:03
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Phil Hand wrote:
举个具体的例子：
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did."
这句话如果没有发现两个cycle之间的巧合，那无法理解，首先得知道在贝拉的时代，很多美国小孩是骑车上学的。贝拉总是装自己很傻，在这里他装自己不知道encyclopedia是百科书而以为是自行车的意思。这句话比较巧妙的地方在于这个傻瓜犯的错误居然还有一种逻辑上完全行得通的理解：我不给他们百科书看，我让他们到学校学学东西。这句的幽默在于这两层意思，一层是傻瓜的明显错误，另外一层是具有一定逻辑性的教育观点，这两层意思的巧合和相撞。
根据Phil的释义，如果由我为这段话配字幕的话，我可能这么配：“百科全书？这个牌子的自行车我没听说过，不过我不打算给孩子们买什么百科全书，就让他们和我当初一样走路去上学好了。”
| | | | Alan Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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| warm-up of a contest? | Nov 20, 2012 |
I was completely intimidated by the difficulty of it and did not seriously attempt it.
If this was a warm-up, I'd rather be cool for the real thing.
即便是国际超级语言天才如赵元任先生再生，恐怕也难翻译到位。
同意Phil 如说，这种东西的翻译，加上解释的话，似乎有点 take the fun out of it，if there is fun in it.
| | | | Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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Автор темы
Alan Wang wrote:
即便是国际超级语言天才如赵元任先生再生，恐怕也难翻译到位。
其实由于汉语与英语之间先天的巨大差异，像 encyclopedia 那句似乎不适合作为本次热身赛的试题。
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pkchan
США
Local time: 04:03
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => китайский
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似乎翻譯本身就是縮減汉英语言、文化之间先天的巨大差异，如無此作用，還翻什麼！
試一試發揮一下∶
Yogi Berra語錄
- "I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."
要是兩手活動自如，少一右臂又何妨。
- "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
在分叉路上，拾路而還。
- "You can observe a lot just by watchin'."
先觀而後察得著�... See more 似乎翻譯本身就是縮減汉英语言、文化之间先天的巨大差异，如無此作用，還翻什麼！
試一試發揮一下∶
Yogi Berra語錄
- "I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."
要是兩手活動自如，少一右臂又何妨。
- "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
在分叉路上，拾路而還。
- "You can observe a lot just by watchin'."
先觀而後察得著多。
- "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
太多人去就擠擁，太擠擁就無人要去。
- "I can't concentrate when I'm thinking."
要思考就無法集中，要集中就無從思考。
- "The future ain't what it used to be."
未來又怎會是從前的老樣子呢。
- "I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did."
不給孩子買百科全書，要他們像我過往一樣走百步上學。
- "We're lost, but we're making good time."
不管迷失或輸掉，但創了記錄。
- "Half the lies they tell about me aren't true."
關於我的半數謊言是不可當真的。
- "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."
五分錢再不能當一毫錢用了。
- "It's like dejavu, all over again."
幻像如煙，不斷重現。
- "It ain't over till it's over."
未到終結不能說是終結。
- Mrs. Lindsay: "You certainly look cool." Yogi Berra: "Thanks, you don't look so hot yourself."
林茜女士∶你非常冷俊。Yogi Berra∶謝謝，你也不什麼惹火。
- "If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be."
世界是不完美的，完美的就不是世界。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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Автор темы
看来这次讨论没有收到预期的效果，因为不是从原文、美国文化背景的角度来理解、翻译，而是从自己的语言、文化、生活背景的角度去理解原文，自然难以准确理解、翻译。尤其是对于大多数语录所含的悖论，几乎没人涉及到。
| | | | Phil Hand
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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看来这次讨论没有收到预期的效果
还好了，从我的角度来看已经算不错，有两三个人看一看，学一学，以新的方式试一试，起码有上百个人旁观，这样很多人对这个原文和美国文化的理解有渐进。别想一步登天，翻译基础知识普及是个庞大的教育任务，我们好好承担自己的角色就好了！
有谁想进一步了解各句话中的含义和悖论，看看原文的诠释即可，这次竞赛新增加的功能，真的的挺有意思。
顺便说一句，pkchan在楼上的译法正是我最欣赏的，并没有按字面翻，而是用中文的语言特色让原文的精神在目标语言重现。阅读这种译文时，我对译者充满信心，我相信他深度了解原文；反而，如果是太字面的译法或者增加了太多解释的话，我就开始怀疑译者是不是真的看透了这篇文章。
| | | | Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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先感谢pkchan兄，让大家有机会看到另一种版本的翻译。
我想借此机会把我对Yogi的语录的特点以及我的更详细的分析与大家分享。当然，我的解读也是一家之言，不当之处在所难免，望各位译友批评指正。
我觉得做这些翻译之前，首先了解一下有关 Yogi Berra的背景会很有帮助。下面是有关他的两个链接：
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra
其... See more 先感谢pkchan兄，让大家有机会看到另一种版本的翻译。
我想借此机会把我对Yogi的语录的特点以及我的更详细的分析与大家分享。当然，我的解读也是一家之言，不当之处在所难免，望各位译友批评指正。
我觉得做这些翻译之前，首先了解一下有关 Yogi Berra的背景会很有帮助。下面是有关他的两个链接：
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra
其中的下面一段话值得注意：
Quotations
Berra is also well known for his pithy comments and witticisms, known as Yogiisms. Yogiisms very often take the form of either an apparently obvious tautology, or aparadoxical contradiction.
Berra 以其精炼的评论和妙语而著称，其形式通常是明显的同义重复或似是而非的矛盾。
2. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_Yogi-ism （谢谢wherestip ）
其中的下面一段话值得注意：
A Yogi-ism is a witty comment or statement that was supposedly said by Yogi Berra. The comments are usually blatantly obvious or incorrect or said in jest to get a laugh.
其评论通常是明显不言而喻的，或不正确，或者是开玩笑。
那么，在翻译时就应该把这种同义重复、矛盾、或不言而喻的特点表现出来。
首先看一下 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
这句话在Proz上的英文说明中比较公认的说法是这样的：
This has nothing to do with cutlery. The phrase is paradoxical because as a noun, a fork (in the road) is a singular entity, but it presents two options, right or left, one of which must be taken. The fork itself cannot be taken.
就是说，a fork实际上是包含两条岔路的，take这里是走某条路，选择某条路线的意思。似乎不应理解为“捡起来，拾起来”。因此，take the fork that you come to实际上变成了一个不可能的事情。根据这种分析，参考译文：
当你走到一个岔路口时，走岔路好了。（一个朋友给出的版本，感觉很不错）
其实，我说这么多，目标无非是，翻译时以正确解读原文为基础，不然，比 Yogi 还 Yogi，走形了。
不当之处，欢迎拍砖！
[Edited at 2012-11-22 02:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-11-22 02:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Phil Hand
Китай
Local time: 16:03
китайский => английский
在原文诠释中，有人这么写：
Berra insists that this is part of some driving directions to his house. In his hometown of Montclair, New Jersey, there is a fork in the road and either way you take, you will get to his house.
对Yogi来说，这样指路完全有道理，但对于新来的人（需要指路的人）来说，take it无法理解！
对于JH Wang的译法，我就想问一下：分叉路口是什么样子？
Fork一定是这样：
没有“直走”可选。
但是，分叉路口我想应该有可能是这样子：
翻译fork时，必须排除第二种形式，要不然“走下去”变成很好的指示，没有悖论了！
[Edited at 2012-11-22 02:35 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-11-22 02:40 GMT]
| | | | Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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Автор темы | 关于 Phil Hand 的回复 | Nov 22, 2012 |
Hi Phil，
谢谢你的关注。其实，假如的确是像有人说的那样，
Berra insists that this is part of some driving directions to his house. In his hometown of Montclair, New Jersey, there is a fork in the road and either way you take, you will get to his house.
那么，这句话本身就没有多少趣味了。因为这样就不是典型的 Yogiism 了。
所以，我个人以为还是参照
The phrase is par... See more Hi Phil，
谢谢你的关注。其实，假如的确是像有人说的那样，
Berra insists that this is part of some driving directions to his house. In his hometown of Montclair, New Jersey, there is a fork in the road and either way you take, you will get to his house.
那么，这句话本身就没有多少趣味了。因为这样就不是典型的 Yogiism 了。
所以，我个人以为还是参照
The phrase is paradoxical because as a noun, a fork (in the road) is a singular entity, but it presents two options, right or left, one of which must be taken. The fork itself cannot be taken.
的解读来翻译好。
至于你说的那两种岔路形式，当然在现实中是存在的。不过，我觉得即使碰到第二种情况，你也得做出选择吧。比如说，你到一个地方去，本来不很熟悉路线，那么碰到第二种岔路时，难道你不得咨询、确认后再前行吗。
需要注意的是，我译文中没有用“直走”字样。
不过，说实话，考虑第二种情况固然是一种严谨，似乎多少有点过度解读了，呵呵。
[Edited at 2012-11-22 03:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | pkchan
США
Local time: 04:03
Член ProZ.com c 2006
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| The Road Not Taken | Nov 22, 2012 |
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-- Robert Frost
拾
shè
ㄕㄜˋ
... See more Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-- Robert Frost
拾
shè
ㄕㄜˋ
古同“涉”，历，经由：拾级而上。
丢
笔画数：9；
部首：扌；
笔顺编号：121341251
详细解释：拾
shè
【动】
蹑足而上〖tiptoeup〗。如:拾级
另见shí
拾路而上
拾路 - 約有 35,400,000 項 google 結果
[Edited at 2012-11-22 03:51 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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pkchan wrote:
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-- Robert Frost
好诗！多谢谢pkchan！！
“拾级”倒是规范用法，“拾路”的用法还没有见过。而且，“拾路而还”如何理解呢？
[Edited at 2012-11-22 03:43 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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受到 Phil 贴图的启发，我仔细再研究了一下原文，发现问题还可以再进一步，希望这次能说明白。
这里的 fork 就像 Phil 前面贴的图中所示的那样，是一个包含两条路的整体，而不要看作单独的两条路。因此，take it，就是take the fork that you come to，事实上是不可能的，因为你只能选择一条路，而不可能两条路都选择，不可能同时两条路都走。问题就在这里，我想现在问题应该说清楚了。这样一来，Phil 所说的第二个图的问题也解决了。
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китайский => английский
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| 在分岔路前，选一条，走下去。 | Nov 22, 2012 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_in_the_road
Fork (intersection): the point at which a road branches into two.
Fork in the road (metaphor): a metaphor, based on a literal expression, for a deciding moment in life or history when a major choice of options is required.
... See more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_in_the_road
Fork (intersection): the point at which a road branches into two.
Fork in the road (metaphor): a metaphor, based on a literal expression, for a deciding moment in life or history when a major choice of options is required.
http://www.amazon.com/When-Come-Fork-Road-Take/dp/0786887443
Hall of Fame philosopher Yogi Berra's When You Come to a Fork in the Road, Take It! is another volume of musings and malaprops, and the advice implicit in the title is sound indeed. Just listen: "Throughout life you come to serious forks in the road--decisions," Yogi tells us. "Which path do you choose? Sometimes it's tough. People are always afraid of making the wrong choice." Not Yogi, who explains that tragedy lies in paralysis, not bad choices or regrets, and offers personal examples from on and off the field to prop up his profundity. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jinhang Wang
Китай
Local time: 16:03
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我想再尝试对一句语录做一下分析，欢迎朋友们拍砖。
顺便先说一下，我的解读显得与大家的一般想法可能不一样，包括 Proz 上的英文说明。
"You can observe a lot just by watchin'."
试译：“你仅仅通过观看就能看出/观察出很多东西。”
解释：这里的just是only，也就是“仅仅”的意思。
这句话的问题就在于这个“just”，因为它言外之意是，还可以通过其他非观看的办法看出/观察出许多事情，比如说还可以通过听、闻等“看出”许多东西，其荒谬就在于此。因为我们只能说，我们可以通过听来听到很多东西。
如果去掉just，原文变成"You can observe a lot by watchin'."，那么这句话就很正常了。
[Edited at 2012-11-23 02:05 GMT]
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