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The Irish revival | The Irish Revival

Michael Newton — Mon, 30 Mar 2026 16:24:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Michael Newton
Post title: The Irish Revival

I once had a client with an interesting project. He said, "Now, I can't pay you right away. Can I pay you in several months?"
I boldly responded: "No huppie, no shtuppie". We did not do business.

The Irish revival | Yiddish in the US today

Robert Forstag — Thu, 26 Mar 2026 15:19:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: Yiddish in the US today

Yiddish is alive today in the United States in four different ways:
1.
In the incorporation of Yiddish words and phrases into the English language.
2.
In the far greater use of Yiddish by many Orthodox Jews in their daily lives.
3.
Most pervasively, among the Satmar Hasidim, who use Yiddish as their primary language.
4.
Finally, among a coterie of mainly secularly oriented people (Jews and non -Jews) who have studied the language sufficiently to attain a high level of proficiency.

In terms of real fluency and daily use of Yiddish as a living language (rather than as a condiment adding a distinctive flavor to English) the Satmar Hasidim are by far the most important exponents of Yiddish in America today.

And so Yiddish still lives in the 21st century - alas, no longer as the expression of a vibrant, varied, secular, and thoroughly modern culture, but instead as the language of a highly insular community that rejects modernity.

[Edited at 2026-03-26 19:01 GMT]

The Irish revival | there are no longer any harmless topics

Liena V. — Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:23:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Liena V.
Post title: there are no longer any harmless topics

[quote]Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
The moral of the story: despite my age, I’m still the same silly, naive girl, as I thought an article about the survival of an almost dying language was a harmless topic… Poor me! [/quote]

Whenever the silly, naive me has an idea to start a new thread about any subject, the cynical me quickly intervenes with "don't do it". Thank you and the very few others who still dare to keep these these forums alive by occasionally sharing something interesting here!

The Irish revival | The Irish revival

Michael Newton — Thu, 26 Mar 2026 05:36:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Michael Newton
Post title: The Irish revival

This topic, like Topsy, has grown. And why not, the journey has been interesting and instructive. With reference to Yiddish. I was in Moscow a few years ago at Dom Knigi. I noticed a vast array of books in Russian on Judaism, Jewish culture, topics that I once thought forbidden. While waiting for my Aeroflot flight from St. Petersburg to Moscow, a Jewish family in front of me said prayers in Hebrew, aided by a Hebrew-language prayerbook. They seemed not threatened. Not so long ago, Russians, sub rosa, referred to Jews as "Dyadya Vanya" ("Uncle Vanya") or "Tyotya Sonia" ("Aunt Sonya"). People would say: 'Nu, shto vy khotitye, on Dyayda" ("Well, what do you expect? He's a Jew") or "Dyadya?", "Da, Dyadya.). There is a nightly radio program in Boston entirely in Yiddish (dialogue and singing). I doubt very much that the language is dying. I remember when I was a student in Paris. You would go to the rue des Rosiers. Jewish shop, Arab shop, Jewish shop, Arab shop. I remember elderly people kvetching and yelling at one another in Yiddish. Those days are long gone. What I really lament is the virtual loss of Ladino, the language of the Spanish Jews expelled by Isabel la catolica. What remain are songs in Ladino, many ribald. There are some Turkish dizi (series) which take place in the Istanbul of the 1950's ("Kulubu", "Pera Palas Hotel") where words and phrases in Ladino pop up regularly. Ah, the Pera Palas Hotel! But that is another subject entirely and I stop lest I offend.

The Irish revival | Back on topic

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida — Wed, 25 Mar 2026 12:30:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Post title: Back on topic

The moral of the story: despite my age, I’m still the same silly, naive girl, as I thought an article about the survival of an almost dying language was a harmless topic… Poor me!

The Irish revival | Wokeness and Christianity

Gerard Barry — Wed, 25 Mar 2026 12:18:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Gerard Barry
Post title: Wokeness and Christianity

[quote]The Shredder wrote:

[quote]Gerard Barry wrote:]

I go through life with my eyes wide open and when it comes to the Christian churches, it's hard not to see that the churches that allow female priests (e.g. the Anglican Church in England or the Protestant churches in continental Europe and North America) have indeed become woke jokes. I recently saw a headline online about some female priest in Germany (I think it was in Berlin) celebrating a "polyamourous marriage". Yuck! The funny thing is, these attempts at being "cool" and "hip" haven't meant any increase in membership or church attendance. On the contrary in fact. [/quote]

Assuming that these churches have indeed become woke (surely that’s what Christianity of any description is aiming for?) and hip, why would you assume it’s women who are behind that? Surely the men must have gone all woke and hip to let the women in… [/quote]

You think wokeness is the aim of Christianity? Where on Earth did you get that daft idea from? Some Anglican priest or bishop? And yes it is usually women (and weak, feminine men) who are behind wokeness. Sometimes though it comes back to bite them in the ass when they have to compete with transgender women in sports and share toilets and dressing rooms with them.

The Irish revival | Glad

Tom in London — Wed, 25 Mar 2026 08:18:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Glad

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:

....real language learning is a long and tedious journey best measured in years and decades rather than five-minute “lessons.” It is a steep uphill climb along which the risk of slipping and falling is ever present.

Many persons and entities who market language teaching programs are complicit in obscuring this harsh reality.
[/quote]

I'm glad someone finally said this. Well done, Robert.

The Irish revival | Back on topic

Philip Lees — Wed, 25 Mar 2026 05:53:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Philip Lees
Post title: Back on topic

[quote]The Shredder wrote:

I wonder, is there a single recorded instance of a language being kept alive through government policy rather than organically?[/quote]
Hebrew?

[url removed]

"Modern Hebrew, based on the biblical language, contains many innovations designed to meet modern needs; it is the only colloquial speech based on a written language."

And of course I should also have mentioned this:

[url removed]

[Edited to add second example]

[Edited at 2026-03-25 05:56 GMT]

The Irish revival | Hey, Threader

Lancashireman — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 22:51:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Lancashireman
Post title: Hey, Threader

I refer you to posts #3 and #4 on Page 1 of this shred.

The Irish revival | Happy and sad

The Shredder — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 20:42:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Happy and sad

[quote]P.L.F. Persio wrote:
I guess languages die, sooner or later
[/quote]
Lovely to see you, Trouble and the wannabe plumber back!

I wonder, is there a single recorded instance of a language being kept alive through government policy rather than organically?

I’m torn on this really. I’ve brought two native Welsh speakers into the world, I speak it myself (badly) and it’s still very much a living language in parts of the country, but how can it possibly recover when native speakers emigrate in their droves but only learners-for-fun come in. Not to mention the obvious problem of most of the population being native speakers of English, of all languages, and quite reasonably taking the same attitude as Tom.

It’s likely though that we will soon have a new governing coalition that will be very focused on the Welsh language and independence, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

The Irish revival | More sexism

The Shredder — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 20:30:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: More sexism

[quote]Gerard Barry wrote:]

I go through life with my eyes wide open and when it comes to the Christian churches, it's hard not to see that the churches that allow female priests (e.g. the Anglican Church in England or the Protestant churches in continental Europe and North America) have indeed become woke jokes. I recently saw a headline online about some female priest in Germany (I think it was in Berlin) celebrating a "polyamourous marriage". Yuck! The funny thing is, these attempts at being "cool" and "hip" haven't meant any increase in membership or church attendance. On the contrary in fact. [/quote]

Assuming that these churches have indeed become woke (surely that’s what Christianity of any description is aiming for?) and hip, why would you assume it’s women who are behind that? Surely the men must have gone all woke and hip to let the women in…

The Irish revival | Raise the flags

The Shredder — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 20:25:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Raise the flags

[quote]Lancashireman wrote:

"Survive the English?" Quite a bigoted thing to say, don't you think? Millions of people worldwide are proud Englishmen and women whose ethnicity brings them peace and contentment and helps them lead good, decent, moral lives. [/quote]
I don’t think there are millions worldwide giving thanks that the English invaded/colonised them, which was the point.

The Irish revival | Eyes wide shut

Baran Keki — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 18:42:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Baran Keki
Post title: Eyes wide shut

[quote]Gerard Barry wrote:
The funny thing is, these attempts at being "cool" and "hip" haven't meant any increase in membership or church attendance. On the contrary in fact. [/quote]
Nor did the tactile attempts of Irish padres with a penchant for the young (male) flesh..
You must have had first hand experience in that regard.

The Irish revival | Hazy dreams and stark realities

Robert Forstag — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 17:41:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: Hazy dreams and stark realities

[quote]P.L.F. Persio wrote:

In 1989, I bought a Teach Yourself Yiddish textbook in Moscow's impressive Dom Knigi – the House of the Book.
To my great shame, I haven't got round to teach myself Yiddish yet, but it gives me a warm feeling to just look at it, and daydream that, one glorious day, I could go beyond Oy vey, bubbeleh, nosh, schmuck, chutzpah, if only I weren't such a lazy putz.[/quote]

It is precisely the fantasy of becoming fluent in a language that apps like Duolingo and Rosetta Stone capitalize on - in the purest economic sense of the term.

As do countless language teachers on YouTube and elsewhere who hawk their wares.

I would further venture to say that a large percentage of language-instruction books meet the same fate as PLF’s Yiddish manual: collecting dust on bookshelves and serving as memories of long-abandoned aspirations.

I myself am responsible for more than a few such purchases - including several pertaining specifically to Yiddish!

Real language learning is a long and tedious journey best measured in years and decades rather than five-minute “lessons.” It is a steep uphill climb along which the risk of slipping and falling is ever present.

Many persons and entities who market language teaching programs are complicit in obscuring this harsh reality.

The Irish revival | I guess languages die, sooner or later

P.L.F. Persi (X) — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 15:30:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: P.L.F. Persi (X)
Post title: I guess languages die, sooner or later

[quote]The Shredder wrote:

Sounds very like Welsh. Campaigners claiming usage is growing based on clearly flawed data, when it’s plain to see the language is in decline, and inevitably so

The question is whether it really, truly, genuinely matters.

[/quote]

It's a waste of a wealth of knowledge, but we've got the tools to record and keep them, just in case.

In 1989, I bought a Teach Yourself Yiddish textbook in Moscow's impressive Dom Knigi – the House of the Book.
To my great shame, I haven't got round to teach myself Yiddish yet, but it gives me a warm feeling to just look at it, and daydream that, one glorious day, I could go beyond Oy vey, bubbeleh, nosh, schmuck, chutzpah, if only I weren't such a lazy putz.

My interest in Yiddish was sparked by reading somewhere that, apparently, it's the language with the most profanities in the world, enabling its speakers to utter the most inventive and brilliant curses ever heard. I love a good cursing, they can lighten the everyday burden of bad news and overall wretchedness, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

I don't think there are many Yiddish-native speakers left in the world, so I will treasure my book.

The Irish revival | .

Gerard Barry — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 15:08:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Gerard Barry
Post title: .

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:

[quote]ipv wrote:

there they come, I was expecting them: the famous racism and sexism...
The third is some kind of -phobia, right? [/quote]

The racism claim could be debated, but if I you can't see the sheer sexism in the intention to exclude women "that turn things into woke jokes" because of the single fact that they are women, then you might want to look up the definition of sexism.

I mean, it's not even sexism in disguise, but right at your face. [/quote]

I go through life with my eyes wide open and when it comes to the Christian churches, it's hard not to see that the churches that allow female priests (e.g. the Anglican Church in England or the Protestant churches in continental Europe and North America) have indeed become woke jokes. I recently saw a headline online about some female priest in Germany (I think it was in Berlin) celebrating a "polyamourous marriage". Yuck! The funny thing is, these attempts at being "cool" and "hip" haven't meant any increase in membership or church attendance. On the contrary in fact.

The Irish revival | Gone

Tom in London — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 14:02:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Gone

I think "mansplaining" is no longer a thing.

The Irish revival | Yes

Lieven Malaise — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 11:01:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: Yes

[quote]ipv wrote:
Should I also look up the definition of "mansplaining"?[/quote]

It appears you should.

The Irish revival | Not in Ireland

Tom in London — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 10:07:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Not in Ireland

[quote]Michael Newton wrote:

.... "to get one's Irish up" means to get into high dudgeon. [/quote]

Not in Ireland.

The Irish revival | Another chance to mention the great Flann O'Brien

Tom in London — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 10:04:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Another chance to mention the great Flann O'Brien

In Flann O'Brien's short story “The Martyr’s Crown" up until about 1850 most of the population in Ireland spoke Irish as their everyday language,

By that time the British had imposed English as the language of government, law, and administration. At least one person in each household had to learn English so that they could deal with the authorities.

The family in O'Brien's story decide that the one to learn English will be the pig (which of course lives along with them in the kitchen).

The Irish revival | At my age

Tom in London — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:51:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: At my age

At my age I can't be bothered to start learning Irish. I'm Irish.

The Irish revival | Well, thank you.

ipv — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:43:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: ipv
Post title: Well, thank you.

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:
then you might want to look up the definition of sexism.

I mean, it's not even sexism in disguise, but right at your face. [/quote]

Should I also look up the definition of "mansplaining"?
See, we can both play that game :-)

The Irish revival | On topic

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:40:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Post title: On topic

The Irish revival | Sexism

Lieven Malaise — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:28:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: Sexism

[quote]ipv wrote:

there they come, I was expecting them: the famous racism and sexism...
The third is some kind of -phobia, right? [/quote]

The racism claim could be debated, but if I you can't see the sheer sexism in the intention to exclude women "that turn things into woke jokes" because of the single fact that they are women, then you might want to look up the definition of sexism.

I mean, it's not even sexism in disguise, but right at your face.

The Irish revival | Oh yes,

ipv — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:11:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: ipv
Post title: Oh yes,

there they come, I was expecting them: the famous racism and sexism...
The third is some kind of -phobia, right?

The Irish revival | On topic

The Shredder — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 08:10:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: On topic

Sounds very like Welsh. Campaigners claiming usage is growing based on clearly flawed data, when it’s plain to see the language is in decline, and inevitably so

The question is whether it really, truly, genuinely matters.

The Irish revival | Sexism

The Shredder — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 08:00:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Sexism

[quote]Gerard Barry wrote:
I agree with you that priests should be allowed marry. As for women becoming priests - no thanks. We've seen what's happened in Protestant churches both in Europe and North America when this happened - those churches largely turned into woke jokes. [/quote]

And now sexism 🙄

The Irish revival | Racism

The Shredder — Tue, 24 Mar 2026 07:58:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Racism

[quote]ipv wrote:

they have managed to survive the English and the Church; I hope they will be able to survive the 3rd world shitshow they're currently faced with. [/quote]

Such shameless racism seems particularly out of place on a site for those who have dedicated their lives to bringing the people of the world together 🙄

The Irish revival | Perhaps...

Matthias Brombach — Mon, 23 Mar 2026 18:56:00 +0000

Forum: Ancient languages
Topic: The Irish revival
Poster: Matthias Brombach
Post title: Perhaps...

[quote]Gerard Barry wrote:

The only thing that's fallen is the birth rate!
[/quote]
...caused by people with a different sexual orientation, like ...?