Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >
SecurePRO update - list of security practices derived from SecurePRO cards
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 15:40
German to English
+ ...
My bad, Ali Aug 21, 2017

Ali Bayraktar wrote:

Maija Cirule wrote:

As I understand from Henry's text, 1. "This list was built by analyzing unstructured texts entered in SecurePRO cards by profile owners." I don't think that all these people are just plain stupid. 2. The given phrases are not mandatory, you can tick or not tick them at your own discretion. 3. Nobody is forced to use SecurePro.
Therefore, I can't figure out what this fuss is about. Of course, these are my 2 cents only but in my book this feature and Enhanced Profile Analytics are the first two useful offerings (for me) from the whole Plus package.


Why?
My position here is not against to this initiative.
I support this and think that this will make most of the communication easier for all of us.
For example requesting CVs step by step becoming unnecessary as we declare all in our profiles.
Like Linkedin.
Nobody in LinkedIn can request CV from another member right?
Everything can be seen in the profiles and it is very useful.

Best,

M. Ali


I am so sorry. I wanted to say that I am of the same opinion as you but somehow failed to express this clearly:(


 
Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 14:40
Italian to English
Which parts of the definitive list will be visible? Aug 21, 2017

Maija Cirule wrote:

I can't figure out what this fuss is about.


I admit I am still unclear - and Henry maybe you can help me out here? - is whether all statements on the definitive list will be visible to prospective clients - the "ticked" and "non-ticked" alike. If the customer is able to see those statements that do not apply to certain freelancers, then I think they can be discriminatory.

Let's take the example I gave - "PHYSICAL SPACE", and assume that the following three statements are eventually chosen.

* My home office is in its own room.
* I am the only one who uses my home office.
* I am willing to agree to make my home office available for on-site audit.

The publication of these statements in the "SecurePRO" section gives the impression that these are the conditions necessary for a freelancer's working practices to be "secure". And failure to "tick them" gives the impression that those who do not tick them are "not secure." Consequently, the statements above risk being read as follows:
* My home office is NOT in its own room / I am NOT the only one who uses my home office (customer interpretation: "So who else uses this room?")
* I am NOT willing to agree to make my home office available for on-site audit" (customer interpretation: "what's she got to hide?")

Obviously if the only statements which appear in a particular freelancer's SecurePRO card are those which apply to his or her particular case, then all this is moot.


 
Ali Bayraktar
Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Read one more time and Aug 21, 2017

...want to make another important suggestion here.

I think, the details of this SecurePRO should be for signed-in members.

Or will you put there a "who can see this" menu for this?
My selection will be "Only Corporate Members Can See it"

This is also important for me.

And may be in the future you can think about a feature for rating all of those ticks.
Like restaurant sites.
In restaurant sites you order a meal and after you c
... See more
...want to make another important suggestion here.

I think, the details of this SecurePRO should be for signed-in members.

Or will you put there a "who can see this" menu for this?
My selection will be "Only Corporate Members Can See it"

This is also important for me.

And may be in the future you can think about a feature for rating all of those ticks.
Like restaurant sites.
In restaurant sites you order a meal and after you can give ratings for speed, taste, service etc.
May be here right beside those selections you can show the ratings of the translators got in the mentioned selection.

Like that:

- I am willing to sign NDAs. 5 (5 highest, 1 lowest rating given by the clients)
- I understand how to, and am willing to agree to, password-protect files.4.7 (5 highest, 1 lowest rating given by the clients)
- I delete project files upon completion of work, or am willing to do so upon request.5 (5 highest, 1 lowest rating given by the clients)

The ratings can be given by the clients (like WWA now)

Would it be too messy?

Just suggestion,

My first point important for me,
Second one come to my mind when I read your list one more time and decided to write here

Best,

M. Ali


PS
the numbers above (like 5, 4.7, 5) should be in superscript, I tried superscript but it did not work

[Edited at 2017-08-21 10:47 GMT]
Collapse


 
Ali Bayraktar
Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
No problem Aug 21, 2017

Maija Cirule wrote:


No problem,
Sorry for my mistake not understanding you correctly.

Best,

M. Ali


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:40
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
There's a big difference between communicating with clients and making online declarations Aug 21, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I see it as a definite step by ProZ.com to incite clients (not employers, remember?) to be intrusive and tell us how to run our professional and even our personal lives

I think I understand this feeling of yours to some degree... but maybe not fully. You have no problem stating here that you find that one term to pretty much cover your approach to data security, and you would not agree to things relating to your home office. Perfectly reasonable position, and one you find reason to state here. What's wrong with saying that in your profile with tickboxes?

I addressed that in my next sentence, Henry (and I see that others have said similar things just now):

By refusing to go along with this feature we'll be made to look as though we're somehow a risk. That makes this feature a really, really serious negative, to my mind.

I'm willing to tell you, informally but publicly, that I'm a heterosexual, white female aged 62. I've even mentioned a couple of times in the forums in the last 10 years that I'm a naturist . But I'm not willing to be put into a situation of divulging personal information or suffering negative consequences.

To be honest, I'm really not at all sure ProZ.com should be asking us for some of this information. What do the privacy of personal information laws say about it in the US? I know you're not making it an obligation, but by suggesting we'll get more clients if we share, you're offering an incitement to share more than we might really feel comfortable with.

I thought this security thing that was promised, and that encouraged me to opt for the Plus grade of membership, was going to somehow give ME security.

No, no. You must not have watched the video or read the announcements very carefully. This is about protecting the security of client data. (This is actually an area in which the interests of the LSP and freelancer are aligned: it is in the interest of both parties to protect confidential data, and comply with end-client requirements, while achieving optimal efficiency on the project. And in fact the end-client also has the same motivations.)

I'm talking about when I paid - before things were firmed up. Maybe I read it wrongly, but I'm still hoping the site will address OUR needs too.

Edited to say that I'm sorry the quoting got mixed up near the end, but it's so complicated to handle quotes in this forum... and I don't have time to fix it at the moment.

[Edited at 2017-08-21 11:12 GMT]


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:40
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Only showing what does get selected, Fiona Aug 21, 2017

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

I admit I am still unclear - and Henry maybe you can help me out here? - is whether all statements on the definitive list will be visible to prospective clients - the "ticked" and "non-ticked" alike. If the customer is able to see those statements that do not apply to certain freelancers, then I think they can be discriminatory.

Let's take the example I gave - "PHYSICAL SPACE", and assume that the following three statements are eventually chosen.

* My home office is in its own room.
* I am the only one who uses my home office.
* I am willing to agree to make my home office available for on-site audit.

The publication of these statements in the "SecurePRO" section gives the impression that these are the conditions necessary for a freelancer's working practices to be "secure". And failure to "tick them" gives the impression that those who do not tick them are "not secure." Consequently, the statements above risk being read as follows:
* My home office is NOT in its own room / I am NOT the only one who uses my home office (customer interpretation: "So who else uses this room?")
* I am NOT willing to agree to make my home office available for on-site audit" (customer interpretation: "what's she got to hide?")

Obviously if the only statements which appear in a particular freelancer's SecurePRO card are those which apply to his or her particular case, then all this is moot.

Yes, the plan is to show in the SecurePRO card only those statements that a person has ticked. The items ticked as supported in all cases will appear in the "standard" box, and the things ticked as supported conditionally will appear in the "available upon request" box. Both of these boxes already exist, that is where people have been entering these practices (in free text, up to now.) Things not ticked will not appear anywhere.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:40
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Not promising clients Aug 21, 2017

Sheila Wilson wrote:
I know you're not making it an obligation, but by suggesting we'll get more clients if we share, you're offering an incitement to share more than we might really feel comfortable with.

I would not encourage anyone to expect that by filling out a SecurePRO card they are suddenly going to be overrun with new clients. (I don't think I have actually suggested that one would meet more clients, have I?) I expect the effect of filling out a SecurePRO card on the rate of meeting new clients to be moderate at best, at least in the short term, and probably in the medium term as well. (Long term, who can say?) Anyway, I hope no one feels pressured to change anything about the security practices they offer; I am not advocating anything but making whatever statements / declarations you deem appropriate, if you make any at all, in line with your actual practices.


 
Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 15:40
German to English
+ ...
I believe Aug 21, 2017

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:



Obviously if the only statements which appear in a particular freelancer's SecurePRO card are those which apply to his or her particular case, then all this is moot.


that this might be the case. I live in Latvia but do not work with Latvian agencies and try to shift my activities to USA. I don't think that a USA-based client would be interested in inspecting my "home office" or carry out my narcotics testing on-site or require to send urine samples to USA, therefore, ticking relevant boxes might be interpreted as a glaring gullibility and I don't see any need to show these blank boxes. Time will tell but right now I feel optimistic.
I see that Henry has already clarified the issue.
Regards
Maija

[Edited at 2017-08-21 13:49 GMT]


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:40
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Regarding who gets to see SecurePRO cards Aug 21, 2017

Ali Bayraktar wrote:

...want to make another important suggestion here.

I think, the details of this SecurePRO should be for signed-in members.

Or will you put there a "who can see this" menu for this?
My selection will be "Only Corporate Members Can See it"

The plan for SecurePRO card visibility, which was previously announced, has been this:

* If you are a Plus subscriber, your SecurePRO card will be visible to any visitor to your profile.
* As a Plus subscriber or business member, others' SecurePRO cards will be visible to you.

On the first point, the thinking was that this means of clarifying your security practices is generally a positive for the profile owner.

As for the second point, the reason we planned to have SecurePRO cards visible to Plus subscribers also, and not just business members, is that freelancers sometimes look for collaborators via the site and this may help them, too.

Of course we can consider changes to the above plan. It sounds like you would like to have the option to limit who gets to see your SecurePRO card, to business members, is that right?


 
Ali Bayraktar
Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Yes Aug 21, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:
It sounds like you would like to have the option to limit who gets to see your SecurePRO card, to business members, is that right?


Yes, if possible to be able to select the target audience.

Best,

M. Ali


 
writeaway
writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Now I too am an UNHAPPY bunny Aug 21, 2017

It seems that those who don't wish to show the SecurePro blurb are stigmatized. THIS is what visitors see:

Data security This person has opted not to show a SecurePRO™ card.

I haven't 'opted out'. I have simply ignored it. Why is Proz even mentioning it on my profile page?
What's going on?? This is really disturbing.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:40
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
It should not say that Aug 21, 2017

writeaway wrote:

It seems that those who don't wish to show the SecurePro blurb are stigmatized. THIS is what visitors see:

Data security This person has opted not to show a SecurePRO™ card.

I haven't 'opted out'. I have simply ignored it. Why is Proz even mentioning it on my profile page?
What's going on?? This is really disturbing.

I think some work was being done in that area. I'll get that fixed.


 
writeaway
writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Thanks Henry Aug 22, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:

writeaway wrote:

It seems that those who don't wish to show the SecurePro blurb are stigmatized. THIS is what visitors see:

Data security This person has opted not to show a SecurePRO™ card.

I haven't 'opted out'. I have simply ignored it. Why is Proz even mentioning it on my profile page?
What's going on?? This is really disturbing.

I think some work was being done in that area. I'll get that fixed.


That's great news. Thank you Henry!


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:40
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
List is now available on a dedicated page. Please indicate which ones you do or do not support. Aug 22, 2017

The list of security practices has been published on a dedicated page: http://www.proz.com/security-practices

On this page, you can specify which practices you do or do not offer. Aggregate data will later be shown for reference.

It will be interesting to share the percentage of professionals who do or do not support certain practices. Could be instructive for clients. For
... See more
The list of security practices has been published on a dedicated page: http://www.proz.com/security-practices

On this page, you can specify which practices you do or do not offer. Aggregate data will later be shown for reference.

It will be interesting to share the percentage of professionals who do or do not support certain practices. Could be instructive for clients. For this reason, I would ask you to go to the trouble of selecting "Never", if that is the actual case, even though this will not change what is shown in your SecurePRO card.

By the way, selecting items in this list will cause them to be saved, but they will not yet be shown in cards. Working on that now.
Collapse


 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:40
German to English
+ ...
Re: "Really?" Aug 22, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Maxi Schwarz wrote:
Henry Dotterer wrote:

And if you are unwilling or unable to agree to a certain practice, isn't it better that people know that, so they don't bother asking you for it?

I have been a full time professional freelance translator for around 30 years. No client has ever asked me for or about any of these things.

Your experience seems atypical. None of your clients has asked you to sign an NDA?

This starts with "a certain practice" which is in response to Sheila. My post refers to "these things" (in the plural). What you write makes it sound as if I am referring to NDA's (a single thing). So let me clarify.

Among "these things" I read about delivering memory files whenever asked, deleting project files upon completion, the creation of paper copies, whether my office is in my own room and if the monitor faces a wall, and even whether I will submit to drug testing upon a customer's request.

In regards to your specific question: A very few clients have had NDAs - usually because it's part of their company procedure overall. However, the strict code of ethics of Canadian translators certified under one of the CTTIC's provincial bodies is well own. Confidentiality is assumed, and for this reason in general even that does not come up.

Meanwhile there is a reverse problem, which I understand Sheila indicated. If one assumes that those specific measures ensure confidentiality - i.e. make interactions "secure" - then the wrong assumption can also be made that those who do not have those specific practises are "not secure". We will have different ideas about what creates this security, and a number of the things on this list will not be seen as components of such security. Meanwhile, however, the idea may be put into clients' minds about "security" with unnecessary worry.

Among your list, there is deletion of files. I have more than often had a client contact me with "Would it be possible to have a new copy of the translation you did for me in (year) and thus they expect that file to be there. In regards to hard paper copies - I produced CERTIFIED translations. They have to be in paper form! I am not creating a risk to confidentiality by producing hard copies that have to be produced. The point is that these specific things in the list are not necessarily seen as components of confidentiality.

These are things to be discussed with our clients when they come up, because then the discussion will be based on things specific to our kind of work and their needs. A generic broad list in a discussion forum type of venue, where potential clients see our names in such a context, does not leave me feeling that comfortable because of what it might accidentally imply.

.I hope that I have managed to clarify things.


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

SecurePRO update - list of security practices derived from SecurePRO cards






Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
Trados Business Manager Lite
Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio

Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.

More info »