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Is there a way to prevent the decline in translation rates?
Thread poster: Erwin S. Fernandez
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 19:49
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
The very point Jun 13, 2015

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

I never suggested pressing rates down. Jeff wrote that he has been working for the same rate since 1993 and he equated that with constant income. I just suggested that he is probably translating more words per day than he did back in 1993.


I have kept my per word/"lauda" (standard page in PTBR) unchanged in my domestic currency (BRL) since July 1994, thanks to exponentially increased productivity.

No, I've never had Trados, though their advertisements try to convince prospects that if I used it, I could charge now half of what I did then.

So, what were my productivity gains?

Hardware
  • Much faster processors - I rarely see that hourglass turning on my screen like before.
  • Much faster printers, though they are no longer necessary so often.
  • Much faster and cheaper storage media - Hard disks, pen drives, SD cards are way faster and cheaper than floppy disks.

    Software
  • Modern software is much more efficient and effective, also using much more RAM than previously.
  • Modern software has many features to automate previously menial tasks.
  • Significantly improved OCR has relieved us from a lot of typing and checking, especially when numbers are involved.
  • CAT tools - Though my typical job involves less than 5% repetitions and no fuzzy matches, they certainly preserve formatting and many other things that had to be rebuilt.

    Internet
  • Current practice is to receive originals and ship translations via Internet. No more driving through urban traffic with floppy disks or printouts.
  • Online research is infinitely faster and more effective than thumbing through a dozen paper dictionaries and reference books.
  • Billing and receiving - The Internet and modern online banking and payment systems have spared us from a lot of time and expense in getting paid for our work.
  • Advertising - Getting known worldwide for what we can do costs just a nibble of what it did when we had to send direct-snail-mail to potential clients in our neighborhood.

    This list could be longer, however these points above represent some significant cost savings to enable us to produce much, much more with less effort and expense than before.

     
  • Kevin Fulton
    Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
    United States
    Local time: 18:49
    German to English
    Agencies can help translators Jun 13, 2015

    Suzan Hamer wrote:

    I don't see the point of agencies, have never worked with one.


    In any market, be it automotive sales, vegetables or translations, middlemen perform a useful function by taking advantage of inefficiencies in the market. They connect a seller with a buyer. My time is spent more productively translating at my desk compared to making largely unproductive customer calls. In many cases, a large company would rather deal with an agency rather than a sole operator. They don't care whether your DTP person is having a baby or that your Internet connection is wonky. They want to make one call to get a job done by a certain date. The agency can take care of the organizational details.

    Also some companies have internal quality requirements that a single translator cannot easily fulfill: availability, adequate system/archiving/personnel backup, demonstrable quality controls, transparency, etc.

    Years ago I had a regular direct client that sent me work several times/year. Unfortunately I wasn't available for a few jobs in a row due to various valid reasons. The last time, they called as I was on my way out the door to the airport to go on vacation and would be gone a couple of weeks. Then I didn't hear from them for a few months. When I inquired about this, I was told that they found a different translator. He charged less (I could have matched his rate and still have done quite well!), but more important – he was always available. I couldn't do anything about that.

    I still have a few direct clients, but for the most part their deadlines are flexible, and they have staff that can handle graphics, layout, etc.

    The problem is that there are simply too many agencies. In order to compete, they have to offer their services at a comparatively (and in some case absolutely) low price point. The oversupply of translators makes this sustainable in the short run. As Lord Keynes said, in the long run, we're all dead.


     
    Gabriele Demuth
    Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 22:49
    English to German
    Low rates - high rates - professional rates Jun 13, 2015

    Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

    Professionals must simply not stoop to these low rates/prices. Then we need not fear declining rates.

    [Edited at 2015-06-13 01:18 GMT]


    I very much appreciate your campaign for professional rates, however, I do feel that it generally is all a bit vague and any new translator will find it difficult to determine what professional rates are, although his website does give a guide.

    When you look at the jobs posted here and several agencies tell you that $0.08 is too much then you doubt.
    When a client indicates that $0.10 is too low then you doubt.

    You and others say, do your maths, but as a new translator things take longer. You are more likely to encounter new subject areas and before I start such a translation I like to read myself into the topic a little, I will need to do more research, edit and proofread more thoroughly and I wouldn't have a good TM to save a bit of time. I don't mind that as I am gaining experience, but doing the maths doesn't always work.


     
    Bernhard Sulzer
    Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
    United States
    Local time: 18:49
    English to German
    + ...
    Another point Jun 13, 2015

    José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

    Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

    I never suggested pressing rates down. Jeff wrote that he has been working for the same rate since 1993 and he equated that with constant income. I just suggested that he is probably translating more words per day than he did back in 1993.


    I have kept my per word/"lauda" (standard page in PTBR) unchanged in my domestic currency (BRL) since July 1994, thanks to exponentially increased productivity.

    No, I've never had Trados, though their advertisements try to convince prospects that if I used it, I could charge now half of what I did then.

    So, what were my productivity gains?

    Hardware
  • Much faster processors - I rarely see that hourglass turning on my screen like before.
  • Much faster printers, though they are no longer necessary so often.
  • Much faster and cheaper storage media - Hard disks, pen drives, SD cards are way faster and cheaper than floppy disks.

    Software
  • Modern software is much more efficient and effective, also using much more RAM than previously.
  • Modern software has many features to automate previously menial tasks.
  • Significantly improved OCR has relieved us from a lot of typing and checking, especially when numbers are involved.
  • CAT tools - Though my typical job involves less than 5% repetitions and no fuzzy matches, they certainly preserve formatting and many other things that had to be rebuilt.

    Internet
  • Current practice is to receive originals and ship translations via Internet. No more driving through urban traffic with floppy disks or printouts.
  • Online research is infinitely faster and more effective than thumbing through a dozen paper dictionaries and reference books.
  • Billing and receiving - The Internet and modern online banking and payment systems have spared us from a lot of time and expense in getting paid for our work.
  • Advertising - Getting known worldwide for what we can do costs just a nibble of what it did when we had to send direct-snail-mail to potential clients in our neighborhood.

    This list could be longer, however these points above represent some significant cost savings to enable us to produce much, much more with less effort and expense than before.


  • All the technical tools we can often (not always) use as translators should never keep us from raising our rates. Or drive us to keep them constant forever, or even charge less.

    Are you going to work for the same rate for the next 10 years because you are using some software that helps you produce more in less time or helps to keep your terminology consistent over many projects? Maybe that's what you do in your field of expertise.

    Not so when it comes to mine.
    I pay for my tools, I know how to use them, I still need to oversee the whole process and without my brain, my experience and my language skills, you can forget about all these tools.

    When I am able to deliver more quickly because of a CAT tool or some software, why should that cost less? If your competition takes twice as long, why should you charge the same amount or, even less logically, less money?! And if all your competition uses the same tools, are you all going to charge less and again less for every new edition of software you buy every year until you make peanuts?

    What in this world is getting cheaper because of new technology? Certainly not CAT tools, And what is getting cheaper in your life? There will be exceptions, but in general, we need to make more as things get more expensive, and technology shouldn't be there so we make less. Technology doesn't replace us, and it is simply a tool that is used by someone who has and always will carry out a highly sophisticated task based on various factors (see below).

    And I don't know how often we can state this but translating is not the same as making bread dough, shoving it in the oven and waiting for it to be done. And then repeat the same process over and over again.

    Providing professional language services is highly sophisticated work, with and without CAT tools, software, the internet, and so forth. Compare yourself to other academic professions. It's not really the words you get paid for - they're just often used as a unit to calculate a price for your work - it's your skill, your experience, your high (self-) education. That's what you need to take into account when you arrive at a fee for your services.

    Don't let agencies or whoever equate "words" in a CAT tool with bread dough in an oven or dishes in a dishwasher.

    [Edited at 2015-06-13 16:20 GMT]


    Barbara Niessen
     
    Dan Lucas
    Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 22:49
    Member (2014)
    Japanese to English
    More options Jun 13, 2015

    Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
    When I am able to deliver more quickly because of a CAT tool or some software, why should that cost less? If your competition takes twice as long, why should you charge the same amount or, even less logically, less money?!

    It's a competitive advantage to use as you wish.

    Let's create a simple model with some made-up numbers. Say you charge $0.20 per word and you can translate 2,000 words a day and that a year consists of 250 working days.

    If you can work all day every day at these rates, you will make $100,000 a year (250 x 2000 x 0.20). Obviously in this situation there is no point in charging anything less than $0.20 per word. Maximising your revenue is easy: work every day!

    Here we introduce a twist: assume that you only have enough clients who are willing to pay that $0.20 per word to keep you busy for 150 days out of the 250 days of the year. If you do nothing, you will earn $60,000 a year. Maybe you spend the remaining 100 days travelling, or gardening or whatever. You're enjoying the freelance life.

    However, perhaps you want to maximise your revenue. If you know that if you drop your rates down to $0.15 per word you will attract additional business, you have the option of working an additional 100 days, generating $30,000 in additional income (100 x 2000 x 0.15) on top of the $60,000 already earned.

    The problem is getting the business. Maybe there is plenty of competition at $0.15 per word, so how do you distinguish your offering from those of other translators?

    At this lower price level it's likely that the clients will be less sensitive to quality, so they may not be prepared to give you the business just because you claim higher quality. Or they may still be interested in quality but it may not be obvious to them that your quality is higher. (It's as well to bear in mind that quality is a cost, just like other inputs.)

    On the other hand, if you are twice as efficient as most competitors, who can only translate 1,000 words a day, then you can use the promise of shorter deadlines - a tangible, measurable advantage - to induce clients to give you the business rather than your competition. You deliver in 5 days what others can deliver in 10, for the same price. That's a powerful weapon, should you wish to use it.

    So there are scenarios in which it may make sense to charge the same as others, because it allows you to maximise your revenue even though your marginal profitability is lower. It gives you options.

    Regards
    Dan


     
    Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz
    Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
    Poland
    Local time: 23:49
    English to Polish
    + ...
    ... Jun 13, 2015

    Dan Lucas wrote:

    Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
    When I am able to deliver more quickly because of a CAT tool or some software, why should that cost less? If your competition takes twice as long, why should you charge the same amount or, even less logically, less money?!

    It's a competitive advantage to use as you wish.

    Let's create a simple model with some made-up numbers. Say you charge $0.20 per word and you can translate 2,000 words a day and that a year consists of 250 working days.

    If you can work all day every day at these rates, you will make $100,000 a year (250 x 2000 x 0.20). Obviously in this situation there is no point in charging anything less than $0.20 per word. Maximising your revenue is easy: work every day!

    Here we introduce a twist: assume that you only have enough clients who are willing to pay that $0.20 per word to keep you busy for 150 days out of the 250 days of the year. If you do nothing, you will earn $60,000 a year. Maybe you spend the remaining 100 days travelling, or gardening or whatever. You're enjoying the freelance life.

    However, perhaps you want to maximise your revenue. If you know that if you drop your rates down to $0.15 per word you will attract additional business, you have the option of working an additional 100 days, generating $30,000 in additional income (100 x 2000 x 0.15) on top of the $60,000 already earned.

    The problem is getting the business. Maybe there is plenty of competition at $0.15 per word, so how do you distinguish your offering from those of other translators?

    At this lower price level it's likely that the clients will be less sensitive to quality, so they may not be prepared to give you the business just because you claim higher quality. Or they may still be interested in quality but it may not be obvious to them that your quality is higher. (It's as well to bear in mind that quality is a cost, just like other inputs.)

    On the other hand, if you are twice as efficient as most competitors, who can only translate 1,000 words a day, then you can use the promise of shorter deadlines - a tangible, measurable advantage - to induce clients to give you the business rather than your competition. You deliver in 5 days what others can deliver in 10, for the same price. That's a powerful weapon, should you wish to use it.

    So there are scenarios in which it may make sense to charge the same as others, because it allows you to maximise your revenue even though your marginal profitability is lower. It gives you options.

    Regards
    Dan


    If you can keep all your $0.20 business and only add some $0.15 work on top of it, that's one thing. But if you just simply decrease your rates across the board, you will perhaps attract more business (which is not really sure), but you will first of all have to work more hours for the same income you're earning now; alternatively, you'll be earning less for the same hours you're working now. Thus, it's more difficult to increase your income by dropping your rates than it may seem[1].

    Also, if you have a lot of free time, you can use it to work on finding new $0.20 clients, or try to find your first $0.25 ones. There's no need to allow your brain to declare an arbitrary stop at $0.20, or any other amount for that matter — something people often forget.

    I've recently been theorizing about this kind of model: charge high rates but do a lot of pro bono work. Actually depend on your pro bono work for experience, and for the numbers of words translated that you need to prove for memberships, tenders and other such purposes. Make a microwebsite (a lively, vibrant section on your website with a lot of content) about your pro bono work. Tell stories, perhaps read up on storytelling marketing. Include pictures if possible. I have no proof for this, but you should have all the easier time getting corporate business for it. Especially if you imply that paying your rates means sponsoring your pro-bono-heavy model. Granted, this won't really be charitable in the same sense as a normal donation, but at least charities and NGOs will actually be benefitting from this anyway.

    If you're going to make, say, $3000 anyway, then you might as well charge $0.30 and do only 10K words in that entire time period. But if you want to still have a full calendar of work, you can do another 10K, or 20K, or 40K, for proper pro bono recipients, i.e. charities, NGOs, needy people etc. (Charities and NGOs will still give you testimonials, certify that you've translated such and such quantities of such and such material for them etc.)

    Just don't become a charity for executive relief[2].

    [1] What appeals to your $.20 crowd doesn't necessarily appeal to $.15-minded folks. Your competitive advantages and strenghts can lose relevance, while you may be weaker on what actually matters to those people.

    Also, while it's true that the better payers tend to be the more quality-sensitive in general, it's also true that lowballers tend to use QA as a weapon to avoid or reduce payment (as well as being less professional in linguistic matters and issues, including due proportion in sizing up difficulties and problems and reacting to them). The cheaper the QA, the more low-skill it is going to be. The more low-skill it is, the more false positives it will generate to your annoyance and even a hazard to your reputation and goodwill.

    [2] Expression coined by Kevin Lossner.


     
    Dan Lucas
    Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 22:49
    Member (2014)
    Japanese to English
    It might work, it might not Jun 13, 2015

    Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
    If you can keep all your $0.20 business and only add some $0.15 work on top of it, that's one thing. But if you just simply decrease your rates across the board, you will perhaps attract more business (which is not really sure), but you will first of all have to work more hours for the same income you're earning now

    Sure, it may not be a sensible strategy for all people or for all of the time. As you say, one would want to approach it carefully.

    I actually think it could well be a sensible strategy precisely because the market is so fragmented and heterogenous. This is one of the times that the lack of widely available and widely applicable information on price works for us translators rather than against us.

    After all, Client A has no easy way to find out what you charged Client D. What I charge to a direct client in Japan for a machine manual may be very different to the rate I charge an agency in South America for a patent. Frankly, who's to know?

    Regards
    Dan


     
    Phil Hand
    Phil Hand  Identity Verified
    China
    Local time: 06:49
    Chinese to English
    Another +1 for agencies Jun 14, 2015

    Suzan Hamer wrote:

    I don't see the point of agencies, have never worked with one.

    I love working with agencies. I'm in a slighly awkward position at the moment because I've rather priced myself out of agency work, but I much prefer it to direct clients. Might need to rethink.

    The reason is simple: you can turn down agency work with no ill-effects. When I have a direct client relying on me, I have to take their jobs, or they will turn to another provider, and I lose their custom. With an agency, I have much more freedom to manage my workload.

    But of course this depends on your own preferences, and the type of clients you find, and a host of other factors.


     
    Fabio M. Caldas
    Fabio M. Caldas  Identity Verified
    Indonesia
    Local time: 05:49
    English to Portuguese
    + ...
    The effect of Gresham’s Law Jun 15, 2015

    It is an old post, but helpful...

    "Are bad translators driving out the good?
    Posted on September 24, 2012"

    https://translationbiz.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/are-bad-translators-driving-out-the-good/

    Thoughts?


     
    Jeff Whittaker
    Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
    United States
    Local time: 18:49
    Member (2002)
    Spanish to English
    + ...
    Great article! Jun 15, 2015

    I like this one too, especially the term "disruptive technologies" in the translation industry (it's a great answer to all those who like to say things like "this doesn't affect the sector I work in" or "this doesn't affect the high end of the transl... See more
    I like this one too, especially the term "disruptive technologies" in the translation industry (it's a great answer to all those who like to say things like "this doesn't affect the sector I work in" or "this doesn't affect the high end of the translation market):

    https://translationbiz.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/will-the-best-and-most-talented-translators-benefit-from-the-disruptors/

    [Excerpt: "Many ... LSPs are struggling with what seem like conflicting signals from the translation marketplace: on the one hand, the demand for translation appears to be increasing worldwide, but on the other, prices appear to be dropping or at least are stagnant...

    Reducing internal staff to lower operating costs is often impractical for companies in an industry almost entirely based on outsourcing and freelancing. Price competition can only be sustained by cutting direct costs—generally by lowering the rates paid to translators. This has a demoralising effect on the primary workforce and encourages the most qualified and skilled translators to leave the profession in search for a more remunerative income..." ]

    Fabio M. Caldas wrote:

    It is an old post, but helpful...

    "Are bad translators driving out the good?
    Posted on September 24, 2012"

    https://translationbiz.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/are-bad-translators-driving-out-the-good/

    Thoughts?


    [Edited at 2015-06-15 13:40 GMT]
    Collapse


     
    Jeff Whittaker
    Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
    United States
    Local time: 18:49
    Member (2002)
    Spanish to English
    + ...
    Another good one: Jun 15, 2015

    https://translationbiz.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/the-price-of-translation-why-is-it-like-buying-a-second-hand-car-xl8/

    [Excerpt: If “information asymmetry” is the problem, would educating the customer help fix the problem, do you think?

    ... Just think how many years it has taken you and me to
    ... See more
    https://translationbiz.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/the-price-of-translation-why-is-it-like-buying-a-second-hand-car-xl8/

    [Excerpt: If “information asymmetry” is the problem, would educating the customer help fix the problem, do you think?

    ... Just think how many years it has taken you and me to develop an understanding of what translation quality means. Even then, you and I probably have very different opinions on what translation quality is or how we should assess it. What chance has the average translation buyer got to understand the question in any meaningful way?]
    Collapse


     
    Fabio M. Caldas
    Fabio M. Caldas  Identity Verified
    Indonesia
    Local time: 05:49
    English to Portuguese
    + ...
    Asymmetric Information Jun 15, 2015

    Jeff Whittaker wrote:

    https://translationbiz.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/the-price-of-translation-why-is-it-like-buying-a-second-hand-car-xl8/

    [Excerpt: If “information asymmetry” is the problem, would educating the customer help fix the problem, do you think?

    ... Just think how many years it has taken you and me to develop an understanding of what translation quality means. Even then, you and I probably have very different opinions on what translation quality is or how we should assess it. What chance has the average translation buyer got to understand the question in any meaningful way?]


    "DEFINITION of 'Asymmetric Information'

    A situation in which one party in a transaction has more or superior information compared to another. This often happens in transactions where the seller knows more than the buyer, although the reverse can happen as well. Potentially, this could be a harmful situation because one party can take advantage of the other party's lack of knowledge.

    Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/asymmetricinformation.asp#ixzz3d8gikqEg"

    What happens when both parties have "superior information"? From my short experience (5 years), no deal is closed because one party has to, some way some how, submit to the other. What about yours?
    Yes, I know that we are the "free"-lancers and that we don't have to accept anything.

    By the way, thanks for the links Jeff, very helpful stuff.


     
    Maria S. Loose, LL.M.
    Maria S. Loose, LL.M.  Identity Verified
    Belgium
    Local time: 23:49
    German to English
    + ...
    Participate in the call for tenders just published Jun 17, 2015

    Another way of raising your rates is to participate in calls for tenders. One has just been published for the translation of specialized financial documents from English into all European languages. Quality accounts for 70 per cent of the points and price only for 30 per cent.

    [Edited at 2015-06-18 14:02 GMT]


     
    Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule
    Gerard Barry
    Gerard Barry
    Germany
    Local time: 23:49
    German to English
    In defence of translators working for peanuts Mar 5, 2021

    When I worked as a freelancer, I was "guilty" of working for low rates (although isn't everything relative?). But here's the problem: how is a translator starting out supposed to know what to charge? In my MA in Advanced Language Skills at the National University of Ireland, Galway (on the off-chance that anyone intending to take this course ever sees this, stay well clear of this degree - it's rubbish), we were never told anything about suitable translation rates, how to attract clients or anyt... See more
    When I worked as a freelancer, I was "guilty" of working for low rates (although isn't everything relative?). But here's the problem: how is a translator starting out supposed to know what to charge? In my MA in Advanced Language Skills at the National University of Ireland, Galway (on the off-chance that anyone intending to take this course ever sees this, stay well clear of this degree - it's rubbish), we were never told anything about suitable translation rates, how to attract clients or anything practical in relation to working as a freelance translator. Nor did the course provide adequate training for the type of work most translators do (technical, financial, legal, etc.). The quality of translation degrees (at least in my native Ireland) leaves a lot to be desired and this is one reason why so many translators are willing to work for low rates.Collapse


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