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Thread poster: jyuan_us
jyuan_us
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我的UP TO和你的UP TO 是風馬牛不相及的 Jun 7, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

Should everything be up to the posters' and the readers' judgement, it would be exactly what Kundera says in his non-fiction work, The Art of the Novel, that the reader's imagination automatically completes the writer's vision. Then, it would be up to the readers to decide whether they understand what it means with a book titled "The Unbearable Lightness of Being."



[标题已经过网站人员或版主的修改 2009-06-07 04:57 GMT]


我說UP TO THE POSTORS‘ AND THE READERS TO JUDGE,意思是一個詞條是否是誤譯﹐能否算得上CLASSICAL﹐都取決於發帖人和讀帖人的判斷。而你卻說Then, it would be up to the readers to decide whether they understand what it means with a book titled "The Unbearable Lightness of Being."。我們談的完全是兩碼事。我必須明確這一點。 你從我的陳述出發﹐重複我的用詞﹐卻把論點引導到另外一條路上。就這一小段而言﹐你偏離了論題。


 
jyuan_us
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這些都不能成為你認為這個書名proper的充足理由 Jun 7, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

I don't see any proposal of a better Chinese book title for this work of Kundera's and I am glad that Chinese native readers can enjoy reading 《生命中不可承受之轻》 as well. If it is up to the opinions of the readers, I would say that it must be a proper translation of a book title, for otherwise, the publishers would have chosen another book title for their economical interests.



[标题已经过网站人员或版主的修改 2009-06-07 04:57 GMT]


你說的這些都不能成為支持你認為這個書名是a proper translation的理由。這樣的推論方式有點把因和果﹐把IF...THEN... ﹐把前與後顛倒了的嫌疑。我只是有這種感覺﹐具體的邏輯問題出在哪裡﹐我也不打算繼續分析。


 
ysun
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请教 Jun 8, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

I am of the opinion that the "lightness" has to be translated this way for it isn't something which is "轻松 (easiness; something to be taken lightly)" at all.

Katrin Koehler wrote:

His "生命中不能承受之轻" is actually "在生命中教人承受不了之轻" which is, of course, not "轻松" at all! Maybe this is why some reader has an opinion like this link http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/92275950.html shows.

既然你的中文很棒,那我就用中文发表意见了。 我想请教你一下,如果《生命中不能承受之轻》的“轻”不是指“轻松”,那么它又是指什么样的“轻”呢?

假设现在有个完全不懂任何外文的中国人不理解这个“轻”是指什么,向你请教这个问题,你能否完全用中文向他解释一下呢?希望你不要说这个“轻”就是 "lightness”,因为他不懂任何英文。也希望你不要这样说:你看完那篇小说或学点捷克的历史就会理解了。既然是“轻”,那么一定是一个与“轻”有关而且可以用“轻”来简称的名词。那么它是什么呢?请你姑且先从字面上来解释它到底是指什么“轻”,而不管它实际上是指什么东西。谢谢!


 
ysun
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这是什么逻辑 Jun 8, 2009

难道说,看得懂那书名的人就必定每人都会买一本,而看不懂那书名的人就肯定都不会买? 世界上无数的书,难道你看懂书名后就都会买一本? 你不买书就意味着它们的书名你都看不懂?

再说,难道书籍畅销就意味着译文完美无瑕了?别人就不能批评了?
Katrin Koehler wrote:

Now, so far I know, there are two versions of this work of Kundera's published in Chinese: 《生命中不可承受之轻》 translated by Han Shaogong in 1985 and 《不能承受的生命之轻》 translated by Xu Jun some time later. Both of them are popular among Chinese readers. Let's say, if 99.99% of Chinese natives wouldn't take both book titles as understandable and only 0.01% would have bought a copy of any one of these versions, there could be around 12 million copies sold in China. Or, let's take the half or the three quarters, that would be 4 to 6 million copies - an amazing popularity of an "improper" translation of a book title! I would wonder what if this one of Kundera's works should be titled flattly 《布拉格之恋》(Love in/of/for Prag)!



[Edited at 2009-06-08 19:46 GMT]


 
lbone
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轻与重 Jun 8, 2009

刚看《生命中不能承受之轻》这个名字时,确实感到不能理解,不过去看了看作品介绍,原来其中确实提到“轻”与“重”的对比。小说想说的是,不仅“重”会让人无法承担,“轻”也可以让人无法承受。从这个大致意思看。我觉得这样翻译也没什么明显问题。... See more
刚看《生命中不能承受之轻》这个名字时,确实感到不能理解,不过去看了看作品介绍,原来其中确实提到“轻”与“重”的对比。小说想说的是,不仅“重”会让人无法承担,“轻”也可以让人无法承受。从这个大致意思看。我觉得这样翻译也没什么明显问题。

http://baike.baidu.com/view/326042.html?wtp=tt

  《生命中不能承受之轻》,全世界公认最受欢迎的畅销书,昆德拉最受欢迎并获得好评最多的作品,也是昆德拉的才华得到集中体现的一部作品。这是一部哲学小说,共有八章:第一章《轻与重》;第二章《灵与肉》;第三章《误解的词》;第四章《灵与肉》;第五章《轻与重》;第六章《伟大的进军》;第七章《卡列宁的微笑》。

  看得出来,昆德拉从一两个关键词,如“轻与重”、“灵与肉”等,以及基本情境出发构成了小说的人物与情节。当然,人物不过是哲学中的代码,情节也不过是哲学中的情境。小说的主要人物有四个:托马斯、特丽莎、萨宾娜、弗兰茨。昆德拉在书中提出轻、重、灵、肉、记忆、虚弱、眩晕、牧歌、天堂等一系列的生存暗码,并与人物一一对应,支撑起各自的生存状态,展现了心灵与肉体的两重性。而每个关键词都是人物不同可能性的侧面。可能性是与一次性相抗争的最积极的方式,因而此书可视为对自以为是的“绝对”的瓦解。而生命由于缺乏绝对的意义,变得没有依凭与支撑,甚至不如随风飞舞的羽毛那样有确定的方向。

*********

  最沉重的负担压迫着我们,让我们屈服于它,把我们压倒地上。但在历代的爱情诗中,女人总渴望承受一个男性身体的重量。于是,最沉重的负担同时也成了最强盛的生命力的影像。负担越重,我们的生命越贴近大地,它就越真切实在。

  相反,当负担完全缺失,人就会变得比空气还轻,就会飘起来,就会远离大地和地上的生命,人也就只是一个半真的存在,其运动也会变得自由而没有意义。

  那么,到底选择什么?是重还是轻?

*********

看上面这两段介绍,个人觉得这样翻译是可接受的。

至于一开始为什么觉得别扭,想想应该是原作者提出的的命题本身就比较不合常人思维。以前读书时看教科书也经常有看得很头晕的,那也不是因为教科书中那些句子在语言表述上有什么问题,只不过是内容本身确实不易理解。

[Edited at 2009-06-08 05:03 GMT]
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ysun
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看来 Jun 8, 2009

lbone wrote:

刚看《生命中不能承受之轻》这个名字时,确实感到不能理解,不过去看了看作品介绍,原来其中确实提到“轻”与“重”的对比。小说想说的是,不仅“重”会让人无法承担,“轻”也可以让人无法承受。从这个大致意思看 。我觉得这样翻译也没什么明显问题。

*********

看上面这两段介绍,个人觉得这样翻译是可接受的。

至于一开始为什么觉得别扭,想想应该是原作者提出的的命题本身就比较不合常人思维。以前读书时看教科书也经常有看得很头晕的,那也不是因为教科书中那些句子在语言表述上有什么问题,只不过是内容本身确实不易理 解。

[Edited at 2009-06-08 05:03 GMT]

从你所说的看来,如果不看那作品介绍,确实不能理解那书名,换言之就是不知其所云。 大概“常人”非得等到看完全书之后,才能完全理解那书名。:D

至于那个评语“《生命中不能承受之轻》,全世界公认最受欢迎的畅销书,昆德拉最受欢迎并获得好评最多的作品,也是昆德拉的才华得到集中体现的一部作品”,明显地是指昆德拉的原著以及各种文字的译本,而不仅仅是指中译本。该书畅销,最根本的原因是因为读者认为昆德拉的原著写得好,否则翻译得再好也无济于事。况且,中译本在中国畅销并不就意味着译文完美无瑕。如果你去看一下 Zhoudan 提供的那篇“许均与韩少功有关《生命中不能承受之轻》的对话”,就会知道,许均在称赞韩少功的同时,也指出了他把“上午”译成“下午”,将“女友”译成“情妇”等明显的误译。而且,台湾有位教授,把韩的中译本与英译本进行了周详的比照并提出很多批评。韩少功对此表示接受和感谢。
http://www.guji.com.cn/books/bkview.asp?bkid=39964&cid=70507

最后想请教你一下。Katrin认为这个“轻”不是指“轻松”,你是否也如此认为?如果你也如此认为,那么这个“轻”与“轻松”的区别在哪里?

[Edited at 2009-06-08 21:37 GMT]


 
Katrin Koehler (X)
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Summing up the discussion concerning The Unbearable Lightness of Being Jun 8, 2009

lbone wrote:

刚看《生命中不能承受之轻》这个名字时,确实感到不能理解,不过去看了看作品介绍,原来其中确实提到“轻”与“重”的对比。小说想说的是,不仅“重”会让人无法承担,“轻”也可以让人无法承受。从这个大致意思看。我觉得这样翻译也没什么明显问题。

http://baike.baidu.com/view/326042.html?wtp=tt

...

  看得出来,昆德拉从一两个关键词,如“轻与重”、“灵与肉”等,以及基本情境出发构成了小说的人物与情节。当然,人物不过是哲学中的代码,情节也不过是哲学中的情境。小说的主要人物有四个:托马斯、特丽莎、萨宾娜、弗兰茨。昆德拉在书中提出轻、重、灵、肉、记忆、虚弱、眩晕、牧歌、天堂等一系列的生存暗码,并与人物一一对应,支撑起各自的生存状态,展现了心灵与肉体的两重性。而每个关键词都是人物不同可能性的侧面。可能性是与一次性相抗争的最积极的方式,因而此书可视为对自以为是的“绝对”的瓦解。而生命由于缺乏绝对的意义,变得没有依凭与支撑,甚至不如随风飞舞的羽毛那样有确定的方向。

*********

  最沉重的负担压迫着我们,让我们屈服于它,把我们压倒地上。但在历代的爱情诗中,女人总渴望承受一个男性身体的重量。于是,最沉重的负担同时也成了最强盛的生命力的影像。负担越重,我们的生命越贴近大地,它就越真切实在。

  相反,当负担完全缺失,人就会变得比空气还轻,就会飘起来,就会远离大地和地上的生命,人也就只是一个半真的存在,其运动也会变得自由而没有意义。

  那么,到底选择什么?是重还是轻?

*********

看上面这两段介绍,个人觉得这样翻译是可接受的。

至于一开始为什么觉得别扭,想想应该是原作者提出的的命题本身就比较不合常人思维。以前读书时看教科书也经常有看得很头晕的,那也不是因为教科书中那些句子在语言表述上有什么问题,只不过是内容本身确实不易理解。


Thanks, lbone.

It is obvious that there is also a constrast of "轻 lightness" and "重 heaviness" in Chinese. I started my opinion by commenting "恶之花生命中不能承受之轻" to point out that prejudices can lead to unfair criticisms. Both two book titles are just normal translations. They are:

Charles Baudelaire's The Flowers of Evil
(in French Les Fleurs du mal and
in Chinese 《恶之华》 or 《恶之花》) and
Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being
(in Czech Nesnesitelná lehkost bytí,
in Russian Невыносимая лёгкость бытия,
in Polish Nieznośna lekkość bytu,
in French l'Insoutenable légèreté de l'être,
in Italian L'insostenibile leggerezza dell'essere,
in Spanish La insoportable levedad del ser,
in German Die unerträgliche Leichtigkeit des Seins, and, of course,
in Chinese 《生命中不能承受之轻》).

We don't have a problem with Baudelaire's The Flowers of Evil. It is the book title and everybody would agree with the Chinese translation except the topic starter (or some ones else?).

Kundera's Nesnesitelná lehkost bytí is a bit hard for readers all over the world. If we take the screen adaptation of Hollywood, it isn't too hard at all. One might take the novel for a love story with some affairs in all senses, something like Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago. But, it isn't about love stories or affairs at all. It's about being a human, about being on this earth among other beings or about being in life on this earth among other people. The choices a human being takes, the decisions a human being makes, can be light or heavy. However, it doesn't matter at all in the end.

Our discussion, in accordance with the topic of this thread (Classical Mistranslation), was about the appropriateness of the translation of the book title.

Let's take a look of what the other translators translated the book title into their languages. Czech belongs to Slavic languages and we see that there is a word-by-word, onto translation from Czech to both Russian and Polish. Nesnesitelná = Невыносимая = Nieznośna, lehkost = лёгкость = лёгкость and bytí = бытия = bytu. There is no articles in Slavic languages like in Indo-Germanic languages.

In Indo-Germanic languages, we see the same word-by-word, onto translation as well, apart from the articles. So, Insoutenable = insostenibile = insoportable = unerträgliche = Unbearble, légèreté = leggerezza = levedad = Leichtigkeit = Lightness and (de l')être = (dell')essere = (del) ser = (des) Sein = (of) Being. The sequence of those terms are in the same order as in Slavic languages.

How about in Chinese? We have Nesnesitelná = 不能承受之 = Unbearable, lehkost = 轻 = Lightness and [b]bytí = 生命中 = (of) Being[b]. Restructured in Chinese, we have the book title as 《生命中不能承受之轻》. The topic starter admits that he understand what "The Unbearable Lightness of Being," but he argues that 《生命中不能承受之轻》 is not understandable in Chinese. Another argues that "轻 (lightness)" could be anything when standing alone. Now, we know as Chinese speakers (natives or non-natives) that the combination "不能承受之轻 (unbearable lightness)" is the term in concern, not just "轻 (lightness)." When we say "不能承受之重 (unbearable heaviness)," everybody in this forum understands. Then, why can't we say "不能承受之轻 (unbearable lightness)"?

I dare even to say that the ones who don't understand the book title 《生命中不能承受之轻》 would probably not be able to read and understand the contents of this work of Kundera's. It is just like someone who takes the title of a research paper reading "基于光晶格束缚原子系统的量子信息处理理论研究" for not understandable would probably not be able to read and understand the contents of the research paper.

For me, 《生命中不能承受之轻》 goes, without reading and saying, a proper translation of Kundera's book title. My point is: When you criticize the translation of other, you must know what you are talking about. It doesn't matter whether you are native or non-native. Human communication has never been in one word or one sentence like "Out!" or "You are out!" None of us is the only one who uses a language to communicate. For communication, there are always "people," people you like or people you dislike, the worst, people who are in interest conflicts with you. The purpose of communication is to find a passable solution for different opinions and/or different interests. What we do when we translate is to help communicating. How boring it would be when some translation leaders are trying to claim their terrain by outing other people who have different opinions and thus achieve one and the same opinion within their hard earned territory (一言堂)! Just imagine, how boring it would be!

The book title 《生命中不能承受之轻》 communicates for me and thousands and thousands of other people, including the 0.01% of Chinese native speakers, as maintained by ysun. Imagine, that 0.01% comes out to be more than 1.2 million! I guess that's why I don't have a problem living in Shanghai, even if there is only 0.01% of Chinese understand what I say. When people ask me how I feel about living in China, I say "如此遥远,如此美好。" and say it again in English, "So far so good." People laugh heartily. Isn't it a "classical mistranslation"? But it is a lovely one for better communication.

Prejudices do lead to misjudgements.


[Edited at 2009-06-08 11:55 GMT]


 
wherestip
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书名的翻译 Jun 8, 2009

这个讨论使我联想到另一部著名著作, "Gone with the Wind". 其中文译名翻成 "乱世佳人"、"随风飘去"、"飘" 不等. 我在中国时, "乱世佳人" 的译法似乎是普遍被人接受的, 一提就知道是这部文学或电影作品. 我想书名"布拉格之恋" 应属于采用类似翻译手法、异曲同工而来�... See more
这个讨论使我联想到另一部著名著作, "Gone with the Wind". 其中文译名翻成 "乱世佳人"、"随风飘去"、"飘" 不等. 我在中国时, "乱世佳人" 的译法似乎是普遍被人接受的, 一提就知道是这部文学或电影作品. 我想书名"布拉格之恋" 应属于采用类似翻译手法、异曲同工而来的, 并没有什么不可以的.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/26932.htm
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/飄

"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" - 我认为这个英文标题很好, 十分明确易懂. 相比之下, 中文的 "啥啥之轻"的字面翻译就逊色多了, 如 Yueyin, jyuan 所说, 这种翻译并不符合中文通常的说法, 乍看让人不知所云(actually I skipped right over jyuan's original post when I first saw the title without any English reference). 当然如今如果已经普遍被社会接受就另当别论了.

我是没看过这本书或这部电影的. 但看了这里引述的一些内容介绍后, 我觉得译者当初不必局限于捷克原文, 完全可以考虑用类似 "轻如鸿毛" 的中国成语作为书名. 当然我只是举个例子来谈我对 "书名的翻译" 的看法, 并不是要推荐这个名字. 这种标题虽然与原捷克书名不是一一对照, 但符合小说的内容, 并可间接使人想到人生的意义.

轻如鸿毛 http://www.zdic.net/cy/ch/ZdicE8ZdicBDZdicBB2049.htm



[Edited at 2009-06-08 16:49 GMT]
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Katrin Koehler (X)
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故且从俗浮湛 Jun 8, 2009

wherestip wrote:

这个讨论使我联想到另一部著名著作, "Gone with the Wind". 其中文译名翻成 "乱世佳人"、"随风飘去"、"飘" 不等. 我在中国时, "乱世佳人" 的译法似乎是普遍被人接受的, 一提就知道是这部文学或电影作品. 我想书名"布拉格之恋" 应属于采用类似翻译手法、异曲同工而来的, 并没有什么不可以的.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/26932.htm
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/飄

"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" - 我认为这个英文标题很好, 十分明确易懂. 相比之下, 中文的 "啥啥之轻"的字面翻译就逊色多了, 如 Yueyin, jyuan 所说, 这种翻译并不符合中文通常的说法, 乍看让人不知所云(actually I skipped right over jyuan's original post when I first saw the title without any English reference). 当然如今如果已经普遍被社会接受就另当别论了.

我是没看过这本书或这部电影的. 但看了这里引述的一些内容介绍后, 我觉得译者当初不必局限于捷克原文, 完全可以考虑用类似 "轻如鸿毛" 的中国成语作为书名. 当然我只是举个例子来谈我对 "书名的翻译" 的看法, 并不是要推荐这个名字. 这种标题虽然与原捷克书名不是一一对照, 但符合小说的内容, 并可间接使人想到人生的意义.

轻如鸿毛 http://www.zdic.net/cy/ch/ZdicE8ZdicBDZdicBB2049.htm


Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind has been translated into all major languages on this earth. However, it is phenomenal that Chinese translation of the the book title and the title of the screen adaptation differ from its original. Why? The book title 《飘》 is acceptable, because it implies "being carried away with the wind." But the title for the movie 《乱世佳人》 is probably forged to suit the commercial purpose, to attract people to go to the movie. I don't have any objection against 《布拉格之恋》 for the screen adaptation of Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, because the movie is a different story and people may call it anything for entertainment. But, it isn't Kundera's work which is titled properly as 《生命中不能承受之轻》. The "异曲同工" with the movie adaptation of Mitchell's work is just to suit the commercial purposes. To achieve commercial purposes has nothing to do with appropriateness of translation, anyway.

As to "轻如鸿毛," it refers to how a person dies (死). In Sima Qian's 《报任少卿书》, he wrote Ren An (任安, also known as 任少卿) in response to the latter's solicitation for help. In order to explain why he could not help, he referred to his own disgrace of being punished with one of the worst sorts of punishment. He was castrated even as an official in charge of keeping records of state events for the posterity. Some people would rather die than living in disgrace, but Sima Qian lived on to finish his monumental work of Shi Ji (Historical Accounts). So, he wrote to Ren An about his disgrace, saying, "仆之先人非有剖符丹书之功,文史、星历,近乎卜祝之闲,固主上所戏弄,倡优畜之,流俗之所轻也。假令仆伏法受诛,若九牛亡一毛,与蝼螘何异?而世又不与能死节者比,特以为智穷罪极,不为自免,卒就死耳。何也?素所自树立使然。人固有一死,死有重于泰山,或轻于鸿毛,用之所趋异也,太上不辱先,其次不辱身,其次不辱理色,其次不辱辞令,其次诎体受辱;其次易服受辱,其次关木索,被箠楚受辱,其次鬄毛发,婴金铁受辱,其次毁肌肤,断支体受辱,最下腐刑极矣。"

This passage could be translated into modern Chinese as "我的先人并没有获得丹书、铁券那样的特大功勋,所从事的是起草文书、编写史料、记录天象、制定律历的工作,其职位接近于占卜之官和太祝之间,本来就是皇上所戏弄,当成乐师、优伶一样畜养的人,为流俗所轻视。假使我受到法律制裁被处死刑,就像九头牛身上失去一根毛一样,跟蝼蚁之死有什么不同?而世人又不会将我与能死节的人同等看待,只认为我智力穷尽,罪过极大,不能自己解脱,终于去死而已。为什么呢?这是自己平素所从事的职务所处的地位促成的。人总有一死,有的人死得比泰山还重,有的人死得比鸿毛还要轻,这是由于应用死节的地方不同的缘故。最上一等是不辱没先人,其次是不辱没自己,其次是颜面上不受辱,其次是辞令上不受辱,其次是被囚系受辱,其次是换上囚服受辱,其次是戴上刑具、挨打受辱,其次是剃掉头发、以铁索束颈受辱,其次是毁伤肌肤、断残肢体受辱,最下一等是遭腐刑,到极点了!"

From this passage, we know that there is in the ways how people die a contrast of a death with significance and a death with insignificance. Sima Qian was castrated by erroding his genital part. It was the utmost disgrace a man could bear. But he lived on in disgrace, for he had an ideal to fulfil. A signifant death is "重如泰山 (as heavy as the mountain Taishan)" and an insignificant death is "轻如鸿毛 (as light as a feather of a wild goose)." Sima Qian was talking about to die signifcantly in his letter to Ren An, while Kundera is talking about to be significantly in his work.

By the end of the letter to Ren An, Sima Qian wrote, "每念斯耻,汗未尝不发背沾衣也!身直为闺合之臣,宁得自引深藏岩穴邪!故且从俗浮湛,与时俯仰,以通其狂惑。" Translated into modern Chinese, his words are "每想到这桩奇耻大辱,没有一次不是汗流浃背,将衣湿透!我现在身为皇宫里的小臣,怎么能离开皇宫去过山居穴处的隐士生活呢?所以,我只好随波逐流,按照时代的风气行事,用来抒发内心的悲愤。" That was the way how he bore the disgrace, with "lightness," because he had a plan in mind and he did it! He left the posterity a monumental work in which we learn about ancient China, in which we learn the historical truth about Sima's time.

Back to Kundera's work, all of the characters left nothing the like as Sima Qian did. Tomáš and Tereza died in an traffic accident. Franz died ironically, after being wounded mortally in a mugging, in the presence of his wife, whose kitch he tried to escape. Sabina wishes to be cremated and thrown to the winds after her death. She told the story of the others and she lives her life as an extreme example of lightness.

Now, could that lightness of Kundera's be "as light as a feather of a wild goose"? Could "轻如鸿毛" be a suitable book title for Milan Kundera's work?

Honestly, I don't see any relevance. As I showed in the last post, there are book titles for this work of Kundera's and all of them abide to Kundera's original title, even the Japanese one which reads "存在の耐えられない軽さ." No one of the translators of Kundera's work has a problem with the "lightness." Why should Chinese translators or readers have a problem with it?


 
ysun
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Agree Jun 8, 2009

wherestip wrote:

这个讨论使我联想到另一部著名著作, "Gone with the Wind". 其中文译名翻成 "乱世佳人"、"随风飘去"、"飘" 不等. 我在中国时, "乱世佳人" 的译法似乎是普遍被人接受的, 一提就知道是这部文学或电影作品. 我想书名"布拉格之恋" 应属于采用类似翻译手法、异曲同工而来的, 并没有什么不可以的.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/26932.htm
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/飄

"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" - 我认为这个英文标题很好, 十分明确易懂. 相比之下, 中文的 "啥啥之轻"的字面翻译就逊色多了, 如 Yueyin, jyuan 所说, 这种翻译并不符合中文通常的说法, 乍看让人不知所云(actually I skipped right over jyuan's original post when I first saw the title without any English reference). 当然如今如果已经普遍被社会接受就另当别论了.


[Edited at 2009-06-08 16:49 GMT]

Steve,

文学作品的翻译,尤其是书名、片名的翻译,往往意译比直译的效果要好得多。这样的例子数不胜数。直译往往难以跳出外语的框框,会让人觉得那是洋人说的中国话。 那电影发行商选择"布拉格之恋"作为片名,实际上就是对“生命中不能承受之轻”这种译法的否定。如果以“生命中不能承受之轻”作为片名更合适,那何必还要更改呢?难道电影发行商就没考虑过 “their economical interests” 吗?除了"布拉格之恋"以外,也有人把那部电影的片名译成“沉重浮生”等。我觉得这也比“生命中不能承受之轻”强许多。这样的翻译才符合中文通常的说法,而且未违背原著的主题。从网上看到过 "布拉格之恋" 的一些中文台词,我觉得那才是中国话。可见,那中文字幕的翻译功底不浅,但不知那翻译是谁。

Katrin 说,”Kundera's work doesn't deal with "Love" in/for/of "Prag" at all. Kundera would definitely feel sorry for the 99.99% of Chinese natives, should they read a book titled "布拉格之恋" as his masterpiece.” 这恐怕也是一种主观片面的说法,Kundera未必会同意。而且,如果 Kundera 懂中文,说不定他也会为他的 masterpiece 的书名被人译成“生命中不能承受之轻”而感到遗憾。现在,Kundera 要求按照他的法文版重译中文版。时至今日,恐怕也不能把书名改译得太厉害,否则读者会以为那又是另一本新书了。所以,也许这将成为一个永久的缺陷。

http://www.douban.com/review/1789522/


[Edited at 2009-06-09 01:58 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
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TOPIC STARTER
XX之輕哪怕有絲毫的群眾基礎﹐早就應該被套用了 Jun 9, 2009

在翻譯過程中﹐譯者可能會創造了一些中文里原來沒有的新詞。其中有一些會被別人套用並逐漸成為可接受的新詞彙﹐有的甚至會迅速流傳開來﹐加入漢語的主流。遺憾的是﹐“XX之輕”至今沒被人套用過﹐更沒有成為主流。

我是針對某個帖子中的某句話有感而發。具體是哪個帖子對不上了。

如果不看到文字﹐只聽別人念這個書名﹐搞不好有人會誤解為“。。。不能承受知青”。 MY GOD﹐ 捷克也有知青﹖而且還不能承受﹖也許捷克太小了﹐裝不下那麼多知青﹐所以不能承受。

[Edited at 2009-06-09 00:32 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-06-09 00:32 GMT]


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 09:31
Chinese to English
存在主义 (?) Jun 9, 2009

http://bc.cinema.com.hk/adhoc/krzysztof_kieslowski/movie_white.html
Remembering Kieslowski: Three Colours White
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8GL3YZIWZs&feature=related
The End (Trzy kolory - Biały)- Zbigniew Preisner

<
... See more
http://bc.cinema.com.hk/adhoc/krzysztof_kieslowski/movie_white.html
Remembering Kieslowski: Three Colours White
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8GL3YZIWZs&feature=related
The End (Trzy kolory - Biały)- Zbigniew Preisner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vivaoPZhIH8
Raise the red lantern trailer
Collapse


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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你偏離了討論﹐你的用詞屬於人身攻擊 Jun 9, 2009

TO Katrin Koehler:


你的上述言論屬於人身攻擊﹐我保留SUBMIT A TICKET TO REQUEST THE site administrator to block you.

如果你知錯必改﹐自己把自己的帖子REMOVE掉﹐我可以暫時原諒你。

[Edited at 2009-06-09 07:13 GMT]


 
ysun
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请别忘了,一开始连你自己都看不懂“生命中不能承受之轻”是什么意思 Jun 9, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

No one of the translators of Kundera's work has a problem with the "lightness." Why should Chinese translators or readers have a problem with it?

Katrin,

其实 lbone 所说的话帮不了你什么忙。他的说法是很有代表性的。他说,“刚看《生命中不能承受之轻》这个名字时,确实感到不能理解”。我相信大多数中国人在看到这个中文译名时,其第一反应也会是如此。很多翻得很滥的译文若不对照原文根本就看不懂,“生命中不能承受之轻”这个标题就是一例。这和你举的那个“基于光晶格束缚原子系统的量子信息处理理论研究”的例子根本风马牛不相及。

大家再三说,含糊不清、难以理解的是这个中文标题,而不是"The Unbearable Lightness of Being"那个英文标题,更不是"lightness" 这个英文单词。不知你是真看不懂大家的意思,还是故意要回避关键问题。老实说,你这种辩论手法,我们并不陌生。只不过是最近半年见得少了些而已。

请别忘了,一开始连你自己都看不懂“生命中不能承受之轻”是什么意思。既然你对这本书如此了解,理解得如此深刻,而且“生命中不能承受之輕”这个书名真象你说的译得那么好,为什么一开始连你自己都不知其所云呢?《惡之花》和《生命中不能承受之輕》是两本很著名的书,并不是什么无名之作,为什么你却会误以为它们只是一本书呢?为什么你想不到《生命中不能承受之輕》就是 Kundera 的 "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" 呢?其实,你已经提到了 “the Unbearable Lightness”,为什么只差一步却还是想不到那就是你十分熟悉、理解得十分深刻的 "The Unbearable Lightness of Being"呢?由此可见,那个中文书名确实译得不怎么样!如果jyuan_us没有用逗号把“惡之花”和“生命中不能承受之輕”分开,那还情有可愿。可是,他从一开始就用逗号把它们分开了,为什么你还会理解为“恶之花生 (Evil's peanut[s])","命中 (hit straight [into])","不能承受之轻”呢?这倒使我想起了那个把“无鸡鸭也可,无鱼肉也可”改成“无鸡,鸭也可;无鱼,肉也可”的经典笑话。:D

试问,如果有人说他很爱看“乱世佳人,安娜•卡列尼娜”,有几个人会误以为这是指一部作品而不是两部呢?换言之,有几个人会误以为这里的“乱世佳人”就是指“安娜•卡列尼娜”呢(尽管“乱世佳人”的女主角费雯丽也主演过“安娜•卡列尼娜” )?所以说,你一开始的那种误解正好说明这个书名译得不怎么样。你一开始表现出的对这个中文译名的第一反应是最真实的反应。你再长篇大论地发表意见又能有多少意义呢?

Katrin Koehler wrote:

What´s that?
jyuan_us wrote:

惡之花﹐生命中不能承受之輕


Evil´s Peanuts Hit Straight into the Unbearable Lightness? Whose work was that? It looks like interesting.

[Edited at 2009-06-05 01:00 GMT]

Katrin Koehler wrote:

I see, you mean, "恶之花生命中不能承受之轻" are two different works and 99.99% of native Chinese speakers wouldn't understand what the last work, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being," means. I am sorry to have mistaken "恶之花生命中不能承受之轻" for a sole work written by some author unknown to me.

Katrin Koehler wrote:

When I saw your criticism about the book title "恶之花生命中不能承受之轻," I thought it could be a book title, instead of two book titles because there isn't a separator between "恶之花" and "生命中不能承受之轻." So, "恶之花生 (Evil's peanut[s])" "命中 (hit straight [into])" "不能承受之轻 ([the] unbearable lightness)." Now, we concentrate on the idea of "the unbearable lightness."
[Edited at 2009-06-06 07:54 GMT]


 
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